Colorado mission shooter was inactive Mormon ...

[_The Nehor]

http://blog.mrm.org/2006/12/bound-for-glory/

The inhabitants of the Telestial kingdom will delight in an existence of far greater comfort and enjoyment than anything available on earth; a glory beyond mortal understanding. There will be no death, disease, infirmity, taxes, wars, bills or menial labor. The people will be free to socialize, travel and learn (Victor Ludlow, Principles and Practices of the Restored Gospel,240-241). In fact, Joseph Smith reportedly said,

The telestial kingdom is so great, if we knew what it was like we would kill ourselves to get there. (see Richard Neitzel Holzapfel,The Heavens Are Open, The 1992 Sperry Symposium of the Doctrine and Covenant and Church History, 155)

If you just can't believe in yourself, if you think you've failed over and over, if you think you'll never amount to anything, there's one way, if you believe it, that you can make everything instantly better, thousands of times better. Not to mention you're making the lives of anyone you take with you better to.

There is the small problem of it fixing nothing as laid out in the D&C. What was that again? Oh yeah, a long period spent in hell. I think the Savior described it too. Something about how painful to bear you know not. Creation has no exit sign and death is not a loophole.

[_Mister Scratch]

I make light of all tragic situations. It's a common theme around here. Many do it.

Would you care to offer up a CFR?

And yes, I'm sure she would be shocked and horrified by what I said though she didn't say much about the other comments similar to it that I throw out. It's called dark humor. Choose to be offended if you must.

I also stand corrected....I need to get that movie and watch it again.

As for examining his life, I think that's a fruitless endeavor. I don't think any of us are qualified to diagnose him (though I could be wrong) and I seriously doubt any of us will have access to him. To quote a great psychiatrist, "I can't diagnose thin air." So this would all just be guessing.

I'm not sure that anyone has advocated examining *him*, per se, so much as folks have advised looking at aspects of LDS culture, thinking, etc., which may have affected him. E.g., is LDS absolutism culpable in any way? I guess the bottom line, in my view, is that if there is anything about the Church would could have been changed in order to prevent this tragedy, then we should be in favor of said change.

[_Jersey Girl]

Nehor

I don't think any of us are qualified to diagnose him (though I could be wrong) and I seriously doubt any of us will have access to him.

It would be nice, Nehor, when offering up your "dark humor", if you were more informed. No, none of us will "have access to him". He died by his own hand, gun to the head.

Jersey Girl

[_The Nehor]

I make light of all tragic situations. It's a common theme around here. Many do it.

Would you care to offer up a CFR?

And yes, I'm sure she would be shocked and horrified by what I said though she didn't say much about the other comments similar to it that I throw out. It's called dark humor. Choose to be offended if you must.

I also stand corrected....I need to get that movie and watch it again.

As for examining his life, I think that's a fruitless endeavor. I don't think any of us are qualified to diagnose him (though I could be wrong) and I seriously doubt any of us will have access to him. To quote a great psychiatrist, "I can't diagnose thin air." So this would all just be guessing.

I'm not sure that anyone has advocated examining *him*, per se, so much as folks have advised looking at aspects of LDS culture, thinking, etc., which may have affected him. E.g., is LDS absolutism culpable in any way? I guess the bottom line, in my view, is that if there is anything about the Church would could have been changed in order to prevent this tragedy, then we should be in favor of said change.

Not really Scratch. I don't have time to do the whole CFR thing. I thought the concept was debunked.

I have no problem with examining aspects of LDS culture but the problem is again, you have almost no data except that a specific LDS person did horrible things. I would contend that this is not a fruitful line of investigation as it is not different than asking, "What aspects of LDS culture could lead someone to a state where they could do such a thing?" To bring the individual involved into the discussion seems pointless as we know next to nothing about him.

[_The Nehor]

Nehor

I don't think any of us are qualified to diagnose him (though I could be wrong) and I seriously doubt any of us will have access to him.

It would be nice, Nehor, when offering up your "dark humor", if you were more informed. No, none of us will "have access to him". He died by his own hand, gun to the head.

Jersey Girl

Yes, but you have to remember that in my mind death is not as severe as it is to some. A shifting of states. For all I know he may come visit me or you or anyone tonight. I doubt it though. All the best to him though. There is healing there.

[_Mister Scratch]

I make light of all tragic situations. It's a common theme around here. Many do it.

Would you care to offer up a CFR?

And yes, I'm sure she would be shocked and horrified by what I said though she didn't say much about the other comments similar to it that I throw out. It's called dark humor. Choose to be offended if you must.

I also stand corrected....I need to get that movie and watch it again.

As for examining his life, I think that's a fruitless endeavor. I don't think any of us are qualified to diagnose him (though I could be wrong) and I seriously doubt any of us will have access to him. To quote a great psychiatrist, "I can't diagnose thin air." So this would all just be guessing.

I'm not sure that anyone has advocated examining *him*, per se, so much as folks have advised looking at aspects of LDS culture, thinking, etc., which may have affected him. E.g., is LDS absolutism culpable in any way? I guess the bottom line, in my view, is that if there is anything about the Church would could have been changed in order to prevent this tragedy, then we should be in favor of said change.

Not really Scratch. I don't have time to do the whole CFR thing. I thought the concept was debunked.

I have no problem with examining aspects of LDS culture but the problem is again, you have almost no data except that a specific LDS person did horrible things.

I beg to differ. I already cited the Krakauer text in my favor. We can examine Mark Hofmann, too, while we're at it. Or any number of other LDS-related nutjobs. There are quite a few LDS people who have done "horrible things."

I would contend that this is not a fruitful line of investigation as it is not different than asking, "What aspects of LDS culture could lead someone to a state where they could do such a thing?"

And this is "not...fruitful" how? I have to say, Nehor, that it seems like you are just throwing in the towel---i.e, you're saying, "I don't dare do anything to implicate the Church!" so you give up on any kind of critical inquiry altogether.

To bring the individual involved into the discussion seems pointless as we know next to nothing about him.

Please re-read my post, dear Nehor.

[_The Nehor]

Well, the Danites have been tapping my phone....gotta be careful in these troubled times. Don't want my blood atoning for my message board activity any time soon.

LDS people do do horrible things. Still, in this case I don't get (even after rereading your post) how LDS absolutism can even be guessed as the cause of what happened.

I did not say the investigation would not be fruitful, just the angle you're pursuing is no different except for adding emotional response to the debate.

I do admit I do not have the drive for critical inquiry on this subject that you do. Then again, you might be willing to concede that someone who honestly believes they consult with God on a daily basis might consider criticism of his organization kinda silly. The Church (and Gospel) are in my view salvation. Analyzing them for flaws is like making sure the helicopter pilot pulling you out of the middle of the ocean is licensed to operate this particular model. It just doesn't seem important.

[_mledbetter]

I suspect he had KFC that day.

"Oh how I hate the Colonel with his wee bitty eyes."

Charlie Mackenzie: Dad, how can you hate "The Colonel"?
Stuart Mackenzie: Because he puts an addictive chemical in his chicken that makes ya crave it fortnightly, smarta$$!

[_Mister Scratch]

Well, the Danites have been tapping my phone....gotta be careful in these troubled times. Don't want my blood atoning for my message board activity any time soon.

LDS people do do horrible things. Still, in this case I don't get (even after rereading your post) how LDS absolutism can even be guessed as the cause of what happened.

"Absolutism" is, as the term implies, an absolute approach to life. E.g., I'm not just kind of right about this issue, I am absolutely right. This sort of superiority complex, or "God Complex" (which, let's face it, is built into LDS theology), can lead to some pretty dangerous assumptions on the part of those who accept them as being the Word of God. There isn't any room for negotiation or critical inquiry within this worldview. Absolutism is dangerous in general, not just within an LDS framework. It's is like the old saying goes: Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

I did not say the investigation would not be fruitful, just the angle you're pursuing is no different except for adding emotional response to the debate.

I do admit I do not have the drive for critical inquiry on this subject that you do. Then again, you might be willing to concede that someone who honestly believes they consult with God on a daily basis might consider criticism of his organization kinda silly. The Church (and Gospel) are in my view salvation. Analyzing them for flaws is like making sure the helicopter pilot pulling you out of the middle of the ocean is licensed to operate this particular model. It just doesn't seem important.

Um, wow....

[_Jersey Girl]

I want to test out a theory that I offered to a family member. How do you all think KSL came about the information regarding the shooter's being baptized LDS a year ago...when the media in the general location of the actual incidents did not?

Thanks, in advance, for serious replies only.