Does the church really teach "a good way to live?"

[_truth dancer]

1. The elitism - VERY difficult for me to take. The whole, "you are chosen," you will be a Queen/Goddess/Priestess, idea always felt uncomfortable.

Just don't buy into it if uncomfy.

I never could... even as a believer. :-)

2. The issues surrounding women. :-(

LDS Women should be as untraditional as they like. No need to stay barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen.

Yep! :-)

3. The lack of support for one's spiritual journey (there is no journey in Mormonism... just obedience).

I talk about a spiritual journey all the time. No one ever told me it was wrong.

I've never heard anyone discuss the spiritual journey in the LDS church (except for you... smile). In many faith traditions there is the awareness of growth, a movement toward greater peace, an expanding heart. There are teachings that help devotees discover more of themself and their relationship to the divine/universe. This seems in my opinion to be completely absent in the LDS church. So long as one has a TR, and stays obedient they are there in the CKHL! This is it.

4. The elimination of discovery, (one is told all the answers, what is truth, and what one must believe).

I disagree. The most authentic beliefs are the ones you have found to be true. Belief is too important of thing not to question.

I'm not sure with what you disagree... cause I totally agree with your statement. (smile) I am suggesting that in the LDS church one must give up one's authentic truth if it does not match the doctrine/beliefs of the LDS church.

5. The teaching to follow and conform rather than embrace one's personal inspiration and path.

If you go along with this you simply encourage them to be a cult of obedience. Members help the Church by resisting this tendency.

The teaching is still really strong in the LDS church don't you think? I of course do not go along with it but it certianly seems to be a mantra... obey, follow, conform.

6. The emphasis on releasing one's normal way of viewing the world, to embrace, by faith, ideas and doctrines that seems totally unbelievable.

I am uncertain what you mean by this.

There are so many teachings in the LDS church that I cannot integrate into my reality. For example, I can't fit the idea of God as a human primate into my brain, and if I followed the teachings of the church, should go on faith that Joseph Smith was correct and God is indeed a man living on a sphere close to Kolob. Ya know?

7. The idea there is a one and only way to God.

As long as you cling to the idea of spiritual pathways, you will not have to worry about saying, "I'm right and you're wrong".

Yeah, I do not buy into this at all... it never felt right.

8. The elimination of cultural diversity.

Now this would be wrong. Do we teach this?

It is not taught but certainly apparent. For example, the idea that all men must wear white shirts and ties. Everyone must appear like Utans in the 1950s. It feels so opposite from what is beautiful about our world... in my opinion.

9. The idea the one's good fortune is based on one's righteousness (in this life or the previous one).

Is there not some truth to this? Those who persevered to read are more knowledgeable. Those who took yoga are more limber, etc....

I think this sets up folks for some serious pride and judgment issues. So long as one's good fortune is equated with their righteousness they are not understanding the dynamics of our world. Like the children in Dufar were not righteous in the premortal life. Or like if someone's life is filled with lots of great things it means they are special and wonderful. Reality is, our good or not so good fortune has mush more to do with where we were born, our early circumstances, and the luck of our DNA than righteousness and obedience. :-)

11. The hopelessness of the CKHL; procreating children as a polygamous wife for eternity... (sigh).

Does sound tedious. However, some Mormon women have pointed out that we have no reason to assume that this spiritual procreation would be anything like the process we are familiar with.

Regardless of how women procreate spirit children, the whole thing is not something I would EVER in a million years look foward to. I've often said, the CKHL is basically my idea of hell. :-)

12. The lack of spiritual motivation or enthusiasm or encouragement, (no Joyce Meyer, Joel Olstein talks... smile).

Yes, this is unfortunately true. Good religious motivational talks are further and fewer between.

I would actually enjoy going to church, even if I didn't believe if I felt some sort of inspiration and motivation to live a better life. Seriously, Joel and Joyce can inspire me and give me a little jolt to embrace goodness! Ya know?

:-)

~dancer~

[_Imwashingmypirate]

Blixa mentioned on another thread some compelling areas where the LDS culture perhaps fails to excel. It made me think of the common statement "well, the church teaches a good lifestyle and good morals...and is family oriented." For the most part, I've believed it. But her list below made me wonder...

I remembered one thing he said at the end that I wanted to comment on. As he was addressing those having the "challenges," he said (paraphrasing), "consider what other church is more true," or "is there another church that has more to offer?"

I hear this comment often, and it drives me crazy!.

LOL, I know. I'm not a believer, but hey, I think some eastern religious philosophies are "more true" (probably the ones that eschew a notion of a final truth entirely) and frankly I can think of lots of other churches that do have more to offer: more genuine community, less anti-gay fulminating, less misogyny, less racist history, less judgementalism, better architecthure, better art, better literature, more beautiful rituals, etc. It would not be a hard list to come up with.

I'm facing the "hang out in the waiting room while my son gets married in the temple" thing in a few months. I'm still irked that this church claims to be so family oriented when they won't even allow a non-believing parent see their child get married! So many policies serve to separate them from non-believers, I have to wonder...is it really "a good, moral lifestyle?"

That is exactly why my mum doesn't want me to marry in the temple.

Pirate.

[_Gazelam]

That is exactly why my mum doesn't want me to marry in the temple.

Pirate.

Your mothers in the wrong. Tell her she can plan your reception, and that you will do a ring ceremony at the reception. You really want to get married in the Temple.

[_OUT OF MY MISERY]

That is exactly why my mum doesn't want me to marry in the temple.

Pirate.[/quote]



Get married where you can have your whole family be a part of the ceremony. Your mother will always remember being excluded on your special day

[_BishopRic]

That is exactly why my mum doesn't want me to marry in the temple.

Pirate.

Your mothers in the wrong. Tell her she can plan your reception, and that you will do a ring ceremony at the reception. You really want to get married in the Temple.

That is an extremely offensive suggestion -- and many TBMs don't even start to understand why. The policy to not allow parents see their child get married -- probably the only time in their life -- is the most family divisive policy I know in the LDS church. And that comes from an organization that claims to be "family oriented!"

Yeah right.

Somebody mentioned this yesterday, but perhaps Mormons don't really understand the term "unconditional love." Perhaps what the church is really teaching is that love is unconditional, as long as you believe like I do?! Last I checked, that's a "condition."

No, when the church chooses (and it is a policy that could be changed, just like so many others that eventually changed when the pressures got strong enough...) to really become family oriented, this will be another of those constantly changing policies that will be made to bring the church into integrity with what the other side of the mouth is teaching!

[_moksha]

9. The idea the one's good fortune is based on one's righteousness (in this life or the previous one).

Is there not some truth to this? Those who persevered to read are more knowledgeable. Those who took yoga are more limber, etc....

I think this sets up folks for some serious pride and judgment issues. So long as one's good fortune is equated with their righteousness they are not understanding the dynamics of our world. Like the children in Dufar were not righteous in the premortal life. Or like if someone's life is filled with lots of great things it means they are special and wonderful. Reality is, our good or not so good fortune has mush more to do with where we were born, our early circumstances, and the luck of our DNA than righteousness and obedience. :-)

Yes, that part of ones life circumstances being tied to some sort of performance evaluation in the pre-existence is fraught will pitfalls. It is all speculation, so we need not be haunted by it. The underlying point seems designed to justify the good life for those who are well off as well as the bad for those who are at society's bottom rungs. I have had fellow Mormons point with pride as to their specialness at having been born into the Church in these latter days. Thus some speculation can be viewed at prophetic and some as hubris.

11. The hopelessness of the CKHL; procreating children as a polygamous wife for eternity... (sigh).

Does sound tedious. However, some Mormon women have pointed out that we have no reason to assume that this spiritual procreation would be anything like the process we are familiar with.

Regardless of how women procreate spirit children, the whole thing is not something I would EVER in a million years look forward to. I've often said, the CKHL is basically my idea of hell. :-)

Hey, someone has to run the kingdom while the hubby is having a dalliances with one of the sister wives. In this scenario the Goddesses rule. Possibly these spirit children are simply will into existence.

~dancer~

[_BishopRic]

That is exactly why my mum doesn't want me to marry in the temple.

Pirate.

Get married where you can have your whole family be a part of the ceremony. Your mother will always remember being excluded on your special day[/quote]

Exactly! I see the church changing the exclusionary policy simply because there are more people leaving the church than joining today, so many parents are not able to attend their child's weddings, and this is the direction many choose to allow a family ceremony. They can always get "sealed" later, so it becomes the lesser of two evils.

Does the church really want to be seen as the one to divide families? Hasn't Pres. Hinckley been emphasizing tolerance lately? Seems this smacks of intolerance.