FAIR to TBM Volunteer: "Go screw yourself!"

[_jskains]

I'm certainly not analyzing Josh. But it's not rocket science to recognize that an individual who has complained about problems in establishing real life relationships, demonstrates an inability to recognize his own problematic behavior online, has complained about depression and sees the world as a dark place, and has engaged in suicide ideation really needs to get help.

I do agree that many people could benefit from professional help. I think there is no shame in it. I got therapy myself when I struggled with depression during my marriage. I got therapy for all of my children when we were going through a divorce, and my son, who has bipolar, has regular intervention and help. There really is no shame in it. The only shame is that our society has stigmatized it.

*eyeroll* See, for someone like this, it is an Ego boost. Even if I had all these problems she thinks I did, she has no clue if I already got help or if I am at a different place, or whatever. Ultimately she brings all these things in such a public way to discredit me. It makes her feel superior in order to be able to tell someone "Your a Mormon, so your suicidal and depressed. You need help".

Sadly, if I were all these things and didn't want to bring it up here, her dragging it all over here would be considered cruel and hateful.

That is why walking into a party where a discussion was going on and proclaming, "oh this person was suicidal"... Well, that would be rude, hateful, and frankly childish.

Perhaps you need to look in the mirror and really figure out which truely needs all this help.

JMS

[_Jason Bourne]

Quite a sad post over on ZLMB, from an apparently depressed poster called "jskains":

I offered my time, finances, and resources to FAIR recently, only to basically be told to go screw myself. I guess all that gospel teachings like forgiveness doesn't apply to FAIR folks.

I was a meber of there list when I did have a crisis of faith in a very complicated time in my life. Apparently my questions rubbed some people the wrong way and now I am a permanent black mark on their records.

(emphasis added)

He offers up more cogent criticism a bit further along in the thread:

That rejection by FAIR was a bit hurtful and I think goes to show a bit of elitism that exists with them. I had a crisis of faith. Sorry, but it helped me evolve. So I asked some questions of concern on the FAIR list, so they kicked me off. And this all happened several years ago!!! Guess they aren't bound by the rules of the Gospel like fellowshipping, love, kindness, understanding, forgiveness, etc.

[...]

I have learned, however, not to be the type of Mormon who is close minded to others, expecially those who also have a honest crisis of faith. I am open to the bigger questions, allowing for a member who is seeking to ask SOMEONE who can listen and understand. Many LDS seem to think asking questions is somehow evil or dangerous. This "Milk before the Meat" concept is somewhat abused. There is a point when one is done with the Milk and is ready for the MEAT!

Perhaps God has brought me on this quest so I can help others in a real-life setting. I hope so. I think there are LDS who have been abused by the close-minded and then those who are further abused by self-rightous Christians who have nothing better to do than spread hate and discontent about a group of people they don't agree with. Being betrayed by those we trust often hurts the most, so I think many Ex-LDS run to the nasty Mainstream "cult" watchgroups as a lessor of two evils.

Some very interesting observations here. But what strikes me as being most intriguing is the fact that FAIR, in effect, told this guy to "shove it," despite the fact that he offered them money and the fact that FAIR has repeatedly made it clear that they are low on funds. It makes me think that S. Gordon & et. al. must really be in panic mode, waving their arms about in a paranoid frenzy, completely unwilling to allow anyone to help out with the cause.

Why do you peruse page after page of ancient posts on an almost defunct LDS message board for things to make hay about. I think you have far too much time on your hands.

[_beastie]

*eyeroll* See, for someone like this, it is an Ego boost. Even if I had all these problems she thinks I did, she has no clue if I already got help or if I am at a different place, or whatever. Ultimately she brings all these things in such a public way to discredit me. It makes her feel superior in order to be able to tell someone "Your a Mormon, so your suicidal and depressed. You need help".

What an extraordinary feat of mind reading. First, I said nothing, nor made any insinuation, that your Mormon beliefs were related to your underlying problems. I don't think they are. I think you would likely have these problems regardless of your belief system. (insert: as a matter of fact, I know this to be true. During your periods in which you had concluded the church probably wasn't what it claimed to be, but still associated with it due to the fact that it's a good religion, you still manifested these same problems.) In addition, in my experience with you on boards, believers are as likely as exbelievers to view your behavior as problematic, as you well know.

Second, I told you that I have gotten therapy in the past due to depression. I needed help. I got therapy for my children, and ongoing therapy for my son. Yet somehow you twist that to mean I'm getting an ego boost in telling you to get help? It makes me feel "superior"???? This makes no sense.

Sadly, if I were all these things and didn't want to bring it up here, her dragging it all over here would be considered cruel and hateful.

That is why walking into a party where a discussion was going on and proclaming, "oh this person was suicidal"... Well, that would be rude, hateful, and frankly childish.

Perhaps you need to look in the mirror and really figure out which truly needs all this help.

I would never have brought it up except for the fact that you immediately began engaging in the very same pattern of behavior you demonstrated before.

I'm not a "mind reader". I can't read your mind and know that you want these things kept secret. You talked openly about your issues in the past. People encouraged you to get help in the past, as well.

I don't know you, Josh. I have no personal investment in your well-being, but as someone who naturally feels empathy for people in pain, I want you to get help. But clearly this just feels like one more in a constant stream of attacks to you. I'm sorry. I wish things were different for you.

[_asbestosman]

Did you get your psychology degree from a cracker-jack box? When you get a real one, then I'll allow you to determine when/if I need "help".

That's an interesting point. You know, most psycologists with a real degree have determined that homosexuals don't need "help" regarding their homosexuality. In fact I might argue that whether help is necessary in cases about preferences or personality should largely be left to the individual so long as the individual is not directly harming society.

[_Mister Scratch]

Additionally, MAD did indeed put out a "call for Mods" recently. As it turns out, I would be more than happy to serve as a mod on MAD.

Why would you want that? You disagree with everything they stand for.

Think of the improvements I could make! DCP would be forced to provide actual sources; Pahoran would get banned, etc.

[_jskains]

What an extraordinary feat of mind reading.

No, just following your own pattern of behavior.

First, I said nothing, nor made any insinuation, that your Mormon beliefs were related to your underlying problems. I don't think they are. I think you would likely have these problems regardless of your belief system. (insert: as a matter of fact, I know this to be true. During your periods in which you had concluded the church probably wasn't what it claimed to be, but still associated with it due to the fact that it's a good religion, you still manifested these same problems.) In addition, in my experience with you on boards, believers are as likely as exbelievers to view your behavior as problematic, as you well know.

Yes Doctor Crackerjack. Your proving yourself an effective armchair psychologist.. :)

Second, I told you that I have gotten therapy in the past due to depression. I needed help. I got therapy for my children, and ongoing therapy for my son. Yet somehow you twist that to mean I'm getting an ego boost in telling you to get help? It makes me feel "superior"???? This makes no sense.

Absolutely. You needed therapy and don't want to feel alone. Those evil Mormons should be just as screwed up, so you see a target (me) who you could have left well enough alone, but tried to drag up what you perceive as past issues in order to insult. If you were THAT concerned about me needing help, you would have privately emailed me, not blasted your theories that I am a suicidal psycho all over. Take responsibility.

Armchair psychology is fun.

I would never have brought it up except for the fact that you immediately began engaging in the very same pattern of behavior you demonstrated before.

Yes.. I disagree with you... The horrors of my patterns!!

I'm not a "mind reader". I can't read your mind and know that you want these things kept secret. You talked openly about your issues in the past. People encouraged you to get help in the past, as well.

No, and your lacking in tact too.

I don't know you, Josh.

First logical thing you have said all day.

I have no personal investment in your well-being, but as someone who naturally feels empathy for people in pain, I want you to get help. But clearly this just feels like one more in a constant stream of attacks to you. I'm sorry. I wish things were different for you.

Yes, You wish I was not happily married with an awsome blessing on the way (the baby) who now has found comfort in my religion. How dare me! Bad Mormon!

JMS

[_beastie]

Josh,

Helpful tip for the future. If you do not want your private problems discussed on internet boards, don't bring them up on internet boards.

Clearly, clearly, I was wrong and you are a paragon of mental health these days.

[_jskains]

Josh,

Helpful tip for the future. If you do not want your private problems discussed on internet boards, don't bring them up on internet boards.

Clearly, clearly, I was wrong and you are a paragon of mental health these days.

Helpful tip for the future.. If someone is truely as you claim, depressed and suicidal, feeding sharks in the area so they can jump in on a violent flame war is most likely not a WISE thing.

However, having beaten depression two years ago, I am not really worried about it. I don't think people should be put down for going through depression (or being diabetic for that matter). And for your information, diabetes can cause depression. Fixing the diabetes helped with the depression.

But just because I beat depression, doesn't mean I am going to suddenly side with your beliefs... I am still allowed to believe in Mormonism and NOT be depressed.. THey are not mutually inclusive.

JMS

[_beastie]

Helpful tip for the future.. If someone is truly as you claim, depressed and suicidal, feeding sharks in the area so they can jump in on a violent flame war is most likely not a WISE thing.

However, having beaten depression two years ago, I am not really worried about it. I don't think people should be put down for going through depression (or being diabetic for that matter). And for your information, diabetes can cause depression. Fixing the diabetes helped with the depression.

But just because I beat depression, doesn't mean I am going to suddenly side with your beliefs... I am still allowed to believe in Mormonism and NOT be depressed.. THey are not mutually inclusive.

No one was "putting you down" for going through depression OR diabetes, for heaven's sake.

And no one ever said that you would side with my beliefs because you beat depression.

You are making no sense whatsoever.

[_harmony]

You are making no sense whatsoever.

And this is a new phenomena how?