Where I will be...

[_Infymus]

Stick around, Josh. I like you. (Lord, I confess, I will defend your false prophet until the day I die. Only because I love angry exmos - with ALL my heart. Their welfare is my sole concern. )

Do you know what looks good on an angry exmo? A Doberman.

Q: What is the difference between a dead dog in the road and a dead anti-Mormon in the road?
A: There are skid marks in front of the dog.

Q: What's the difference between vampires and anti-Mormons?
A: Vampires only suck blood at night.

Q: What do you call an anti-Mormon with an IQ of 12?
A: An expert.

Q: What's the difference between an anti-Mormon and a catfish?
A: One is a scum sucking bottom dweller and the other is a fish.

You might be a Mormon Apologist if:

* You have a lot more Grand Grandmas than Great Grandpas.
* Gladys Knight is your favorite black recording artist ... in fact, she might be your favorite black person ...
* You have told people that Salt Lake City is an important cultural centre.
* You have told people that BYU is a "great academic institution".
* One of your kids was accepted by several Ivy League schools and BYU, and went to the "Y" because "some things are more important than education".
* You have mentioned the outcome of a college football game while praying at any time during the past month.
* You think God cares about college football.
* When you smash your thumb with a hammer you say something like "FEEEEEEETCH!".
* You tasted wine once, thought it was disgusting, and have wondered ever since how anyone could like it.
* When that nice investment advisor promised you that your money would triple next month if you gave it to him to invest for you, you felt so wonderful inside that you knew God was finally going to bless you so that you could pay off your first, second and third mortgages and go on a mission!
* You are profoundly overweight, seldom exercise, and feel righteous when while enjoying your second desert at the buffet restaurant you see a guy who looks like he runs marathons abusing his body by drinking a glass of wine.
* You tell people that you cannot disclose anything about the temple, even though it's online.
* You pay ten percent of your cat food to the bishop in keeping with the commandment, because you want to be honest in your dealings with your fellow man.
* You offer 10 percent of your home for use to the local ward
* You believe the WoW was divinely instituted, despite the fact that people tell you that 'Ol Joe drank beer.
* You ardently raise your right arm to the square when you sustain anyone, no matter what it is. For example you raise your right arm to the square when you find out that your best friend is going fly fishing.
* When someone knocks on your door, you instinctively say in your head, "What is wanted?"
* When you get a bonus or monetary gift, you immediately deduct 10% in your head to determine how much of it you actually get to keep.
* You've ever checked the bottom of your shorts legs to make sure your underpants weren't sticking out.
* All your friends are Mormon.
* You have to take two vehicles on the family road trip.
* Your bed sits over several #10 cans of wheat, rice, and potato pearls.
* You have a child named Lehi or Teancum. Or Mahonri Moriancumr.
* You can talk about God in a foreign language, but can't conduct business in that same language.
* You don't know Joseph Smith was a polygamist.
* You believe that Mayans once cruised the countryside on horseback, weilding steel swords and centurion armor.
* You refrain from eating Klondike bars because the chocolate coating has liqueur in it.
* You consider the republican party to be more righteous and worthy than any of the others.
* You've written Harry Reid to call him to repentance.
* While dating, a little petting and oral sex was forgivable but you'd die before touching a cup of coffee even once.
* You see nothing odd about wedding receptions being held at an indoor basketball court.
* You are sure God directs us to our car keys after a little prayer, but decides not to intervene on our behalf in trivial things like war, abuse and natural disasters .
* You love,respect and believe in the equality of all of God's children, yet you pray in gratitude that you were valiant enough in the pre-existence to be born into the conditions that you were.
* You regularly discuss your underwear in private behind a closed door with a 50 year old man - and think nothing about it.
* You send your adolescent kids into that same room with that same man behind the same closed door - and think nothing of it.
* You have no problem excluding non-member family from witnessing temple marriage ceremonies, but would scream persecution from the top of your lungs if you are ever denied anything based on your religion.
* You think families that go to the lake together on Sundays are evil and missing out.
* You believe that the sun gets its light from a superior star called Kolob (still shaking my head on that one).
* You call the corner of a school where the only two non-Mormon teachers have classrooms, "outer darkness."
* You think tank tops are immoral.
* You believe people who drink are immoral.
* The Local food bank comes to you asking for food during disasters.
* You don't drink tea or coffee, but have no problem drinking hot chocolate, Mountain Dew, Coke, Pepsi, Surge, and Herbal Teas
* You think people who have mohawks and earrings in their nose look funny, but think you look cool sporting a green apron and a chiefs cap
* Have ever considered flirting with a coworker when your married because the law against polygamy could be lifted any time and you want to keep your prospects open.
* Refuse to watch historically accurate films and documentaries because they are rated R
* Think National Geographic is a porno mag.
* You know what the hell the term "Miamaid" means.
* You have children and grandchildren of approx. the same age.
* You carry a briefcase to church every sunday for no apparent reason.
* You attained the rank of Eagle, but don't know the scout, oath, motto, or really a damn thing about the boy scouts.
* You have a brother named "Jared"...making you, of course..."The Brother of Jared".
* You know how to pronounce the names "Nephi", "Lehi", and many other names of make-believe characters.
* The term "My Heck" doesn't sound completely f'ing stupid to you.
* You use the term "Negro" out of respect for one of another race than you.
* You consider Thurl Bailey to be the wisest and most entertaining of all "Negroes".
* Your most hated football team is whoever happens to be playing against BYU on any given weekend.
* You are a total weenie, you associate only with total weenies, and you are completely unaware of it.
* It's ok for you to have sex, repent and go on a mission...but you will marry only a virgin.

[_jskains]

I agree that something went "horribly wrong" here, but it wasn't coming from josh's keyboard. It would be refreshing if someone here were to take time to see what went on and tell the truth about what took place. The guy started posting on topic and was met with a group of posters acting nearly in concert as a slander/gossip machine.

You ought to try taking the time to see what went on yourself. This all started on the FAIR thread, when Josh responded to the old story about FAIR rejecting him by explaining that in "all of his years online, no one ever wanted to know him", and "everyone demonizes him". This, in combination with his tendency to be combative and then get angry with people who are combative in return*, in combination with his past problems that he discussed himself on the internet, created a red flag. I made a genuine recommendation to him that he get help. All the rest - the "slander gossip" machine - was to put my comments in context and defend myself when Josh lashed out at me for telling him to get help. Supposedly my telling him to get help was a horrible, libelous, malicious thing to do. What I do agree on now, given his reaction, was that it was a stupid thing to do. I should have just averted my eyes, looked the other way, pretended that everything was okey-dokey.

*for a current example of this tendency, to behave in an obviously combative way and then get very angry when people respond with combative language of their own, see richardmd's response thread to Josh, and Josh's reaction to Richard.

You couldn't put something in context if you had to. My response to Richard was a combination of already taking a fairly harsh beating from the likes of you, an arrogant, self-centered judgemental little cuss that things her poop don't stink. Everything that is DIFFERENT than you is combativein your mind. IT IS NOT your right to decide who is mentally ill and who isn't. You should have taken your little "you need help" suggestion and shoved it where the sun don't shine. Want a demonstration of the stupidity of you and your little following? Look at the "pokator":

Josh, you have an illness.

Get some help, if not for your sake, do it for your wife and child.

This is just getting out of hand. You all need to get over yourselves and quick acting like YOU are all perfect. I don't like being called brainwashed. I hear it all the time. So I made a comment about it. Now I am a depressed, mentally ill diabetic who is violent and stupid. Seriously, there are a lot of assholes on this forum. Bring a group of people together that hate something, and I guess that is a common end result.

What is pathetic is the mob mentality here. One person said "Well Josh, the only constant is you". Bull. The constant is the same group of morons who like to get things rolling and all the sharks that smell blood and join in. Folk of the Fringe, FAIR, ZLMB, all had the same groups of people invovled. Here, same thing... People that knew me jumped in and helped get people more and more worked up. That was my problem with "Beastie/Dr. Crackerjack". Her comments had NO value other than to drag up old dirt and put me down. This crap about trying to act all "empathetic" and "caring" is a cover. There was NOTHING in her posts that was caring. YOU DO NOT COLLECT DIRT, STRING IT TOGETHER, THEN PUBLICLY DECLARE SOMEONE MENTALLY ILL, then try to hide behind some "carying personality". She saw someone she didn't like and went in for the kill.

You can call it victimization, or whatever. I call it facts. I came, I got attacked by a great deal of people, then when I complained, it's "quit being a victim". That is like having someone walk into a room, say something, then have a bunch of people beat the crap out of him, then when he says "that wasn't fair", everyone just saying "quit whinning".

I hear so much about me taking responsibility for my words. When are ANY of you planning to take responsibility for yours? Lead by example, ey?

*shakes head*

JMS



JMS

[_Jersey Girl]

I agree that something went "horribly wrong" here, but it wasn't coming from josh's keyboard. It would be refreshing if someone here were to take time to see what went on and tell the truth about what took place. The guy started posting on topic and was met with a group of posters acting nearly in concert as a slander/gossip machine.

You ought to try taking the time to see what went on yourself. This all started on the FAIR thread, when Josh responded to the old story about FAIR rejecting him by explaining that in "all of his years online, no one ever wanted to know him", and "everyone demonizes him". This, in combination with his tendency to be combative and then get angry with people who are combative in return*, in combination with his past problems that he discussed himself on the internet, created a red flag. I made a genuine recommendation to him that he get help. All the rest - the "slander gossip" machine - was to put my comments in context and defend myself when Josh lashed out at me for telling him to get help. Supposedly my telling him to get help was a horrible, libelous, malicious thing to do. What I do agree on now, given his reaction, was that it was a stupid thing to do. I should have just averted my eyes, looked the other way, pretended that everything was okey-dokey.

*for a current example of this tendency, to behave in an obviously combative way and then get very angry when people respond with combative language of their own, see richardmd's response thread to Josh, and Josh's reaction to Richard.

Gee, beastie. Why didn't you take time to read the post I made prior to the one to Gad? It begins with:

"You'll all excuse me if my "who the hell cares" factor is a bit high right now, but I did take a moment to search on josh's posts and what I see is not surprising. It looks to me as if he remained on topic in various threads until someone decided to post background information on him."

I'm well aware of the search feature on this board and do have the ability to read the posts in chronological order including time stamps. Thanks very much. "This all started" because when josh started posting, someone around here obviously fed Scratch the "background information" and Scratch the dirt digger couldn't wait to put it up there to watch yet another public gang bang.

No topic. A complete shift of focus to the individual.

Just one more thing, beastie. I did look in on this board throughout the day to watch the situation. Before I wrote the above post, I took time to search the chronology. I hope that in a few days, you'll take time to do the same and see how you and others were manipulated. Scratch threw a couple of drops of blood in the water and as if on cue, a small group of posters circled around it and engaged in a feeding frenzy. How easily led! Amazing.

[_Jersey Girl]

josh,

In spite of various points of disagreement between yourself and I over the years, for what it may be worth to you here, you were treated like total s*** on this board by a small group of humorless and unwelcoming posters who apparently live for the public feeding frenzy.

If you change your mind, hop on up to the Celestial and I'll check around to see if you've got something of interest to me to going on there.

LSD/Jersey Girl

[_jskains]

josh,

In spite of various points of disagreement between yourself and I over the years, for what it may be worth to you here, you were treated like total s*** on this board by a small group of humorless and unwelcoming posters who apparently live for the public feeding frenzy.

If you change your mind, hop on up to the Celestial and I'll check around to see if you've got something of interest to me to going on there.

LSD/Jersey Girl

While I think there would be some who are interesting to dialog with, I am disappointed in how much I am letting it get to me. The problem is there are two faces to the issue. There is the ones looking in my direction, who seem not to step back and look at the issue, assuming I am just a mentally ill overreactor. Then there is my seat. In my seat, I am responding to more and more posts of people who want to jump in on this and take another shot. It's overwhelming.

Look at Pokanator's comment. It was so uncalled for an unnessesary. But it was a clear and nasty shot across my bow. Do you think Beastie considers that?

If I was just reacting to Beastie, then I could see "mental illness". You could say "quit playing victim". But it is a different story when it is Mr. Scratchy, Dr. Crackerjack, and the entire line of side buddies who are not only going for my throat, but dragging up the past and trying to string to together to make me look as bad as they can. Look how far it got. Now we got really random accusation that I think that $500,000 houses are trash or that I am a diabetic. It got weird. But do you think Beastie in all her "empathy" stepped back and said "Gee, I wouldn't react to well if I had a bunch of people coming after me all at the same time". Matter-of-a-fact, she just made excuses for it.

But then there is the bigger problem. Some LDS DO go too far. There are a few people on this board I read that I think went WAY over the line on their comments. But I got lumped in automatically.

When someone creates a perception (OJ Did it), all evidence points to their guilt, even if it is a stretch. Some people here got fed from the likes of Beastie. So they overanalyzed my comments to match her public conclusion. That is why what Beastie did was unfair. Dragging up the past, then trying to make it match what I was saying here so she could feel good about her unnessesary call that I get help. It creates a board-wide psychosis that gets out of hand. HUNDREDS of people post video blogs, none of which get labelled as Mentally Ill. I even got some private comments that actually wanted to talk to me about my video. None of which thought it showed a mental illness.

I don't know. I just think ultimately everyone here is guilty. Problem is that very few people will see it that way. I am guilty for overreacting. Many here are guilty for going too far. Too bad many here can't see past their upturned noses.

JMS

[_jskains]

josh,

In spite of various points of disagreement between yourself and I over the years, for what it may be worth to you here, you were treated like total s*** on this board by a small group of humorless and unwelcoming posters who apparently live for the public feeding frenzy.

If you change your mind, hop on up to the Celestial and I'll check around to see if you've got something of interest to me to going on there.

LSD/Jersey Girl

by the way, I apprecate your comments. At least not everyone is a jerk here.

JMS

[_beastie]

You couldn't put something in context if you had to.

Sure, Josh. The background of YOU making comments that made many posters think you were contemplating suicide at one point isn't "putting things into context". The background of YOU referring to your serious struggles with depression weren't "putting things into context". The background of YOU complaining that you had a hard time getting people to relate to you in real life wasn't "putting things into context". AND if I look up past posts that SHOW you did these things so people realize I'm not making this stuff up, that is "digging up dirt".

No, obviously, I'm just a mean person who saw someone she didn't like - oh wait, no, I'm a mean anti-mormon who saw someone making pro-mormon statements - and told that person to "get help" to insult him and feel superior. Oh wait, since I also mentioned there's no shame in needing help and I had gotten help myself in the past, that meant that I wanted to bring you down to my level. Did I get it right?

My response to Richard was a combination of already taking a fairly harsh beating from the likes of you, an arrogant, self-centered judgemental little cuss that things her poop don't stink. Everything that is DIFFERENT than you is combativein your mind.

The reason I copied your "brainwashed" post and changed the nouns to make it look like an exmormon posted it, and then posted it questioning how it would be received at FAIR was to help you see what made it a combative post. You refused to answer my question regarding how it would be received, because, in your own words, to do so would only "justify how you'd been treated". DING DING DING. Yeah, it would "justify" people responding combatively to you because your entire tone in the post was combative. Charity, against her will, couldn't help herself and admitted that the poster would be viewed as a possible "troll" to "play with". The factors that made it combative and "troll like" aren't that you were stating something I disagreed with (I think you may be projecting here), but the terms you used that indicated disparagement towards your target audience.

And I don't even care if you want to be combative in your posts. Other people here are, too. Big deal. Be as combative as you want. But what you can't do is to post combatively, and then play the victim when people return in kind. And no, you don't get to blame me for this. You were doing it before I said one word to you.

Gee, look how you responded to guy on the homosexual thread before I said ONE WORD TO YOU:

guy's response:

I disagree. This is an incredibly simplistic reduction of a complex reality.

Perhaps this may have at one time been true. Sex is about intimacy, bonding, relationships, fun, commitment, fulfillment, etc. It is an act that is wrapped up in a highly complex human, social, and cultural aspects. We are sexual beings, and it goes far beyond procreation.

If this truly reflects your views, I feel sorry for your wife.

Your response:

I noticed how nicely you actually bypassed the issue and went immediately to an insult.

It's hard to reasonably debate with the unreasonable.

WTF??? Your primary POINT was that sex was for procreation, which was exactly what guy addressed. And yeah, if you believe sex is only for procreation, I feel sorry for your wife, too. (unless she doesn't like sex)

When guy protested:

WTF??? Your entire argument started out with a significant, and explicitly stated, assumption. I've questioned the validity of the assumption.

That's called an exercise of logic.

It's not an insult to say that if your view of sex is limited to pro-creation, then I feel sorry for your wife. That's an honest statement. I feel sorry for any spouse whose partner has such a limited view of sex. You're the one who made the grandiose statement to start your argument and now you're complaining when we hold you accountable for it.

And then you call me unreasonable because I challenge you on this?

Wow.

You responded:

Bottom line is you didn't need to go after my wife and make this personal. Your debate skills need work. You never, ever make your comments personal. It just shuts the conversation down.

No, but it's not "personal" and doesn't "shut the conversation down" when you immediately use terms to describe your target audience such as "flail and dance around", are "comical", "fear based".

Be as combative as you want, Josh. But also be adult enough to know that when you are combative, people will be combative with you, as well.

So no, you don't get to blame ME for the fact that you like to be combative and then play the uber-sensitive victim when people fight back. You were doing it before I talked to you, and you've done it on every board I've seen you on.

IT IS NOT your right to decide who is mentally ill and who isn't. You should have taken your little "you need help" suggestion and shoved it where the sun don't shine. Want a demonstration of the stupidity of you and your little following? Look at the "pokator"
Josh, you have an illness.

Yeah, it sure is stupid to tell someone who manifests disturbed thoughts (like "everyone demonizes me") to get help for the sake of his loved ones.

Besides, I never called you "mentally ill". I never tried to diagnose you in some way. I said you needed help. Like I needed help once. Like most people need help at some point in their lives.

This is just getting out of hand. You all need to get over yourselves and quick acting like YOU are all perfect. I don't like being called brainwashed. I hear it all the time. So I made a comment about it. Now I am a depressed, mentally ill diabetic who is violent and stupid. Seriously, there are a lot of assholes on this forum. Bring a group of people together that hate something, and I guess that is a common end result. (snip out more of the same)

No one is actually perfect here, Josh. I even told you I also needed help at one time. I've told you I don't care if you want to be combative, as long as you don't play the victim card when people are aggressive back. And my telling you to get help had NOTHING to do with your brainwashing comments - and I don't use the term "brainwashing", either, because it is too easily misunderstood.

This has to do with your history, and you being combative and then taking offense when people are combative in term, and then interpreting their reaction as another example of how everyone hates Josh and likes to pick on Josh, it's ok when other people say aggressive things, but not JOSH, or everyone demonizes you, no one wants to know you.

I've explained this to you over and over and over and over. You clearly don't want to address THAT, with the exception of claiming you didn't really mean that and I, somehow, magically "knew" that. You want to turn this into "this board is full of assholes who hate something".



by the way, if you really intend to leave this board, which I doubt, you don't have to wait for Shades to delete your account. Just go in and change your password to a random string of letters, copy that random string and paste it to verify the password, and VOILA. You no longer know your password and can't log back in, even when you're tempted.

[_Jersey Girl]

josh,

I will return here in a few moments to turn this post, hopefully, into one last comment on this. I watched the thing go down throughout the day and came back to search the chronology to make sure that my perception was accurate. For the time being, I want you to know that you do have my support in this. Be back in a few to modify this post.

[_Inconceivable]

Josh, lighten up. The board is an abrasive one to those that express uber Mormon beliefs that attempt to back them up by the lies many of us have rejected. It's not a testimony board.

You have expressed ad nausium that you do not understand why those that have left or are leaving the Mormon church still discuss it. If you are unwilling to wrap your mind around this, maybe you are in the wrong place for now.

[_jskains]

Sure, Josh. The background of YOU making comments that made many posters think you were contemplating suicide at one point isn't "putting things into context". The background of YOU referring to your serious struggles with depression weren't "putting things into context". The background of YOU complaining that you had a hard time getting people to relate to you in real life wasn't "putting things into context". AND if I look up past posts that SHOW you did these things so people realize I'm not making this stuff up, that is "digging up dirt".

Digging for dirt is always digging for dirt no matter how many roses you try to cover it with. It was unnessesary and did not contribute.

No, obviously, I'm just a mean person who saw someone she didn't like - oh wait, no, I'm a mean anti-mormon who saw someone making pro-mormon statements - and told that person to "get help" to insult him and feel superior. Oh wait, since I also mentioned there's no shame in needing help and I had gotten help myself in the past, that meant that I wanted to bring you down to my level. Did I get it right?

For someone who claims deep empathy for pain, you certainly do nothing to avoid inflicting it. Ever hear of the term "salting old wounds"? Cross-posting over boards is childish. Stringing together posts to try to make your point by pulling things out of context is also childish.

The reason I copied your "brainwashed" post and changed the nouns to make it look like an exmormon posted it, and then posted it questioning how it would be received at FAIR was to help you see what made it a combative post. You refused to answer my question regarding how it would be received, because, in your own words, to do so would only "justify how you'd been treated". DING DING DING. Yeah, it would "justify" people responding combatively to you because your entire tone in the post was combative. Charity, against her will, couldn't help herself and admitted that the poster would be viewed as a possible "troll" to "play with". The factors that made it combative and "troll like" aren't that you were stating something I disagreed with (I think you may be projecting here), but the terms you used that indicated disparagement towards your target audience.

I have NEVER seen anyone that can twist stuff as WELL as you can. I simply said that if I answered it, it would be to help YOU justify the board behavior. Just because you justify it in YOUR mind, does not mean it truly is justified.

And I don't even care if you want to be combative in your posts. Other people here are, too. Big deal. Be as combative as you want. But what you can't do is to post combatively, and then play the victim when people return in kind. And no, you don't get to blame me for this. You were doing it before I said one word to you.

You obviously cared. You ran in screaming that I needed help and then started tossing crap around "Oh oh, look what I found. Josh is a mentally ill bad man!" You were like a child with a box of candy.

Yeah, it sure is stupid to tell someone who manifests disturbed thoughts (like "everyone demonizes me") to get help for the sake of his loved ones.

See how that "thought" looks out of context? Your using it beyond its meaning. by the way, do you have some OCD? You seem so attached to that comment... "Everyone" can properly be placed in context. Disturbing is if everyone has no context and means "Everyone I ever met ever". Put it in context to "discussion boards with Mormon haters", it's significantly different. THAT is why digging for dirt is wrong, expecially if your going to place it out of context.

And I can not believe you actually are trying to justify pokanator's comment. Are you really that shallow that you don't see that it was just a cutting remark ment to insult? Or are you so blind you think he was serious and trying to show actual concern?

Besides, I never called you "mentally ill". I never tried to diagnose you in some way. I said you needed help. Like I needed help once. Like most people need help at some point in their lives.

It isn't something you needed to say. I know you don't get that. And excuse me? YOU ADMITTED MANY TIMES you tried to diagnose me. You are digging up dirt to even PROVE your diagnoses that I need help?

God woman, you truly live in your own candyland!

This has to do with your history, and you being combative and then taking offense when people are combative in term, and then interpreting their reaction as another example of how everyone hates Josh and likes to pick on Josh, it's ok when other people say aggressive things, but not JOSH, or everyone demonizes you, no one wants to know you.

Are you honestly saying a gangup DID NOT occur? Are you denying that?

JMS