What is Joshua's Beliefs

[_jskains]

Josh does seem like he is enjoying all of it.

Wow, since you know me so well, could you point out the markers that show I am enjoying any of this crap?

JMS

[_jskains]

jskains has a long history on the messageboards. If you want a bit of background information, I would suggest that you read my OP in the thread, "FAIR to TBM Volunteer: "Go Screw Yourself!""

Translation:

If you want to see more of Mister Scratchy's angry smear campaign that has no relevance to anything whatsover, go to his fun filled thread.

JMS

[_OUT OF MY MISERY]

Josh does seem like he is enjoying all of it.

Wow, since you know me so well, could you point out the markers that show I am enjoying any of this crap?

JMS

Because you keep on responding to everyone even me

[_jskains]

Josh does seem like he is enjoying all of it.

Wow, since you know me so well, could you point out the markers that show I am enjoying any of this crap?

JMS

Because you keep on responding to everyone even me

SO when people talk about or to me, and I keep responding, that equals "I love this"... Not sure, but that seems rather stretched. Call me crazy.

JMS

[_Mister Scratch]

jskains has a long history on the messageboards. If you want a bit of background information, I would suggest that you read my OP in the thread, "FAIR to TBM Volunteer: "Go Screw Yourself!""

Translation:

If you want to see more of Mister Scratchy's angry smear campaign that has no relevance to anything whatsover, go to his fun filled thread.

JMS

My dear Josh---what about that thread struck you as a "smear"? Was there something I said which was inaccurate? Or do you just feel embarrassed about some of your past behavior? Or are you still smarting from getting rejected by FAIR? Please, do tell, my dear friend.

[_huckelberry]

Because to me, Traditional Christianity has as many, if not more holes than Mormon theology. Mormon theology fills gaps for me that make Christianity more believable. Hence if you remove Mormonism, the glue that allows me to believe in Christianity in the first place, it all falls away.

JMS

What are biggest couple of holes in traditional Christianity IYO.

Doctrinal development of creedal trinitariansim and it's lack of support in the Bible.

The Bible itself-internal inconsistencies, questionable authorship, compilation process, lack of evidence for most of the gospels outside of Bible.

Lack of evidence for miraculous events.

Lack of evidence for many Old Testament characters and scientific evidence that frankly makes much of the early Old Testament stories not probable.

I was thinking that Jason comments as well as Joshs present some questions for discussion I wonder if it is possible to do so without falling into the ditch of who insulted who first? I notice a seperate thread for the purpose unfortunatel found the ditch right off.

Joshs summary, nonMormon Christianity has no authority instead has debates showing it is dead probably fits the above comments as well. I think the Bible shows a lack of the kind of authority that Mormons have been taught to expect. That is more of an emotional problem for exmormons than other people because others are not expecting the kind of dictation from God single center authority that Mormons have been taught to expect. Myself I see the Mormon expectation aninferior
form of structure. Debate to my view is a sign of life not death. A diffused and limited authority is more compatible with the Christian pricipal of in weakness is Christs strength perfected. I see the New Testament reflecting a church with bushy authority instead of a single trunk,single center authority. That is why the book contains debate about issues and reflects disagreements such as what conformity to Jewish law is proper for gentile believers. The earliest church found answers through lived experience instead of an authority who said what is what.

In the New Testament I see a whole group of people being called throught the Holy Spirity and through that call recognizing Jesus as Lord. From that recognition there is experiment in how to point Jesus call into action. I think the church has had strenght in that form. It allows the basic call to go out to all kinds of people in many places and allows a good deal of diversity in what is actual put into action as a result. It is not a systme which relies on the particular authority of the center.

In that context I do not see much difficulty with the fact we do not know who wrote Matthew. I do not find myself experiencing any sense of problem resulting from this matter yet Mormons repeatedly point to the fact as a problem. I think it is a problem for Mormons concept of authority.

In a significant degree we do not know who the critical editors of most of the Bible are. Who is the chronicler? how many people? Who are the authors of Samuel Kings? Well this question just goes on and on. The answer, various anonymous Jews, probably groups of them over time,is not particularly troubling to me. I does not fit Mormon authority expectations well. I mean did that anonymous committe have any authority?

I see the closest thing to authority to lie in the collective experience of many believers who have preserved the scriptures not in the name of the author, mr so and so. or mrs so and so.

I suspect the summary, not enough evidence for the miraculous, is the observation which actually underlies the others. The Book of Mormon is curious. There is no big public demonstration of Jesus resurection in the Bible or other ancient history. Yet the Book of Mormon is a demonstration, a veritble proof, of his resurrection. I think people can feel attracted to believing that Jesus was reased from the dead but see natural uncertainty. Along comes the Book of Mormon and offers a proof. Is there any wonder that people experience a yes yes this is true emotion? The book supplies the very thing people hunger for. Proof.

Looking at myself loosing this proof left me facing the uncertainty that Christianity has. I explored unblief and can see that as a reaction which is not unreasonable. However for myself I found that there was spritual substance in that hunger to see Jesus as true that lies in the recognition of who he is. I think that Gods intention are for people to test that sense of recognitin through a combination of prayer and putting his guidance into action. It is that process of living which is supposed to be a help to ourselves and others. It is the kind of proof which is effective. It is well to be pushed to focus on it by the lack of the kind of objective historical proof that the Book of Mormon offers. In a way I think it is unfortunate that the Book of Mormon encourages people to rely more than they should on its form of proof.

Because I see Gods call as one to faith I see no particular problem with scientific inaccuracy in the Old Testament. It is the story of relatively ancient people responding to the positive possiblity Gods call creates in our heart. The fact that prophets lack authority and lack supernatural knowledge make me think Gods actions then are actually quite like they have been for the two thousand years since Christ. He is with us and calls us but we must act with the limits of our ignorance in a learning and growing process.

[_jskains]

jskains has a long history on the messageboards. If you want a bit of background information, I would suggest that you read my OP in the thread, "FAIR to TBM Volunteer: "Go Screw Yourself!""

Translation:

If you want to see more of Mister Scratchy's angry smear campaign that has no relevance to anything whatsover, go to his fun filled thread.

JMS

My dear Josh---what about that thread struck you as a "smear"? Was there something I said which was inaccurate? Or do you just feel embarrassed about some of your past behavior? Or are you still smarting from getting rejected by FAIR? Please, do tell, my dear friend.

Am I still smarting from being "rejected" by FAIR? No... I am not the one trying to dig up the "past". That would be you. And some of your accusations were flat out lies, but guess you like to lie as you have said in another post.

JMS

[_Mister Scratch]

jskains has a long history on the messageboards. If you want a bit of background information, I would suggest that you read my OP in the thread, "FAIR to TBM Volunteer: "Go Screw Yourself!""

Translation:

If you want to see more of Mister Scratchy's angry smear campaign that has no relevance to anything whatsover, go to his fun filled thread.

JMS

My dear Josh---what about that thread struck you as a "smear"? Was there something I said which was inaccurate? Or do you just feel embarrassed about some of your past behavior? Or are you still smarting from getting rejected by FAIR? Please, do tell, my dear friend.

Am I still smarting from being "rejected" by FAIR? No... I am not the one trying to dig up the "past". That would be you. And some of your accusations were flat out lies, but guess you like to lie as you have said in another post.

JMS

Let me ask you again. Which of my "accusations" were "flat out lies"? Please be specific, my dear friend. I will wait patiently for you to enlighten me.

[_jskains]

jskains has a long history on the messageboards. If you want a bit of background information, I would suggest that you read my OP in the thread, "FAIR to TBM Volunteer: "Go Screw Yourself!""

Translation:

If you want to see more of Mister Scratchy's angry smear campaign that has no relevance to anything whatsover, go to his fun filled thread.

JMS

My dear Josh---what about that thread struck you as a "smear"? Was there something I said which was inaccurate? Or do you just feel embarrassed about some of your past behavior? Or are you still smarting from getting rejected by FAIR? Please, do tell, my dear friend.

Am I still smarting from being "rejected" by FAIR? No... I am not the one trying to dig up the "past". That would be you. And some of your accusations were flat out lies, but guess you like to lie as you have said in another post.

JMS

Let me ask you again. Which of my "accusations" were "flat out lies"? Please be specific, my dear friend. I will wait patiently for you to enlighten me.

Go find someone else to bother. Your not popular here either, so don't know why you are on such a high horse.

JMS

[_Mister Scratch]

Am I still smarting from being "rejected" by FAIR? No... I am not the one trying to dig up the "past". That would be you. And some of your accusations were flat out lies, but guess you like to lie as you have said in another post.

JMS

Let me ask you again. Which of my "accusations" were "flat out lies"? Please be specific, my dear friend. I will wait patiently for you to enlighten me.[/quote]

Go find someone else to bother. Your not popular here either, so don't know why you are on such a high horse.

JMS[/quote]

My dear friend Josh, I was merely trying to determine why you defined some statements of mine as "flat out lies," which, in my very humble view, is a rather serious characterization. By no means do I intend to come across as being on a "high horse." I'm just trying to figure out why you feel this way. So, I'm terribly sorry to have to ask you again, but: Which of my "accusations" were "flat out lies"? I would be very grateful if you could be as specific as possible. Thanks so much.