Evidence of Mormon Brainwashing

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_Infymus
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Post by _Infymus »

Mister Scratch wrote:[sic] what is your explanation regarding the mom's motive? Could this legitimately be called "brainwashing"?


Scratch, I believe both indoctrination and brainwashing apply in Mormonism.

Indoctrination:

The process of inculcating ideas, attitudes, cognitive strategies or a professional methodology. It is often distinguished from education by the fact that the indoctrinated person is expected not to question or critically examine the doctrine they have learned. As such it is often used pejoratively. However, instruction in the basic principles of a science, or the methodology of a profession, can also be called indoctrination, in the sense that people do not necessarily question or critically examine them. From the specific perspective of some people, like the people who don't critically examine basic principles of a science or methodology of a profession, the word does not necessarily have negative connotations.


Brain Washing:

Brainwashing (also known as thought reform or as re-education) consists of any effort aimed at instilling certain attitudes and beliefs in a person — sometimes unwelcome beliefs in conflict with the person's prior beliefs and knowledge. Some people have come to use the terms "brainwashing" or "mind control" to explain the otherwise intuitively puzzling success of some fast-acting episodes of religious conversion or of recruitment of inductees into groups known variously as new religious movements or as cults. Compare the article on social influence for generic sociological/psychological approaches to the exercise of power. See also: * propaganda * persuasion and attitude change * coercion * Stockholm syndrome


Both can be found on WIKI.

I think the above case you state is more indoctrination rather than brain washing. I was both brain washed as a Mormon and I was heavily indoctrinated.

Brain Washing: Joseph Smith was the greatest man that ever lived, did no wrong, was married only to ONE woman.

Indoctrination: Whispering to the 4 year old child "I know the church is true" and having them repeat it.

Brain Washing: Brigham Young had nothing to do with the Mountain Meadows Massacre. It was all settlers and Indians.

Indoctrination: BRETHREN AND SISTERS: (Patrons all make the sign by raising and lowering their hands three times while reciting the words in unison.) "Pay lay ale, Pay lay ale, Pay lay ale."

Brain Washing AND Indoctrination: "You have had a garment placed upon you, which you were informed, represents the garment given to Adam when he was found naked in the garden of Eden, and which is called the Garment of the Holy Priesthood. This you were instructed to wear throughout your life. You were informed that it will be a shield and a protection to you if you are true and faithful to your covenants."

Both exist and both are used extensively by LDS Inc.

Both are relative.

Both are perverse.

The LDS Corporation will never be honest, open and truthful. It will all be white washings, indoctrination and brainwashing techniques. It all boils down to three things. Money, Power and Control.
_Infymus
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Post by _Infymus »

truth dancer wrote:I'm all for involved parenting, and I would not say this story is an example of "brainwashing," but, a mother who is this concerned about a twelve year old reading Judy Blume seems, in my experience seems to be WAY out of touch with the reality of a twelve year old.


I totally disagree. I was fully reading by age 4. I was reading Edgar Rice Burroughs, Tolkien, Donaldson, CS Lewis and great deals of science fiction and fantasy by the time I was 8 years old. I may not have fully known now to pronounce "physician", but I understood the term quite well.

Twelve years old? I was writing graphic adventure games with swords, shields, armors, inventories and more. I am so thankful that nobody ever took a book out of my hands.

Of course, until I joined Mormonism. Then I learned how to properly hate, how to be vengeful, how to put down something I'd never read or watched as being vile and evil.

I and my wife take turns reading to our children every night. We read dozens of small books and I have started reading the old-world fairy tells to my daughter. She loves them. Ever heard of Babba Yagga? It sure beats the hell out of teaching her about Noah's ark.
_Yoda

Post by _Yoda »

If that mother had read Judy Blume's "Forever", she would have probably fainted. LOL

I actually don't think there was anything wrong with the mother reading the book first. When you have a minor child and you are concerned about content that child may be processing, there is nothing wrong with reading the material first, or previewing a movie first, etc.

Did the mother forbid the daughter from reading the book? That's not how I interpreted it. Maybe I'm missing something:

I read the book, which as I remember is about a young girl, Margaret, who is trying to find God and goes from one church to another, but never finds Him. She never really resolves her search; the book seemed atheistic to me (although not nearly as forceful as Pullman’s books). I sat Clarissa down and described the book and my feelings on it; she decided not to read it and returned it to the library the next day.


According the quote here, the mother explained her feelings, and then the daughter made the decision not to read the book. It didn't appear to me that the mother said, "Don't read it." It sounded more like she said, "I read it. I don't agree with the philosophy of the book but you can read it if you want to."

If that is how it was presented, I really don't see anything wrong.
_KimberlyAnn
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Post by _KimberlyAnn »

I have read Are You There, God? It's Me, Margaret. It's quite appropriate for a twelve year old girl.

Disallowing a twelve year old to read Judy Blume is ridiculous and poor parenting, but I'm not sure it's brainwashing. I DO believe there is plenty of indoctrination in Mormonism, and even brainwashing, in some instances, but this mother isn't guilty of that, in my opinion. She is doing her daughter a disservice by being too controlling.

Her daughter will read it anyway, if she really wants to. Then, if she has questions, she won't ask her mom. Instead, she'll ask kids at school.

KA
_The Nehor
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Post by _The Nehor »

Mister Scratch wrote:
The Nehor wrote:'cult-loving glassy eyed mom"?

Wow, you should be a prophet. I couldn't pull that out of the story.


Fair enough, but what is your explanation regarding the mom's motive? Could this legitimately be called "brainwashing"?


No, at most I think it's overprotective parenting. I doubt she's a brainwashing zealot. Those kinds of people would refuse to read the book themselves too. Also, I would be interested to know if the mother would have let her mother read it if the daughter still wished to. I think this is an innocent anecdote given sinister overtones by others.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics
"I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
_Yoda

Post by _Yoda »

KimberlyAnn wrote:I have read Are You There, God? It's Me, Margaret. It's quite appropriate for a twelve year old girl.

Disallowing a twelve year old to read Judy Blume is ridiculous and poor parenting, but I'm not sure it's brainwashing. I DO believe there is plenty of indoctrination in Mormonism, and even brainwashing, in some instances, but this mother isn't guilty of that, in my opinion. She is doing her daughter a disservice by being too controlling.

Her daughter will read it anyway, if she really wants to. Then, if she has questions, she won't ask her mom. Instead, she'll ask kids at school.

KA


That's why I wanted some clarification on what happened. I agree that if the mother forbid her from reading it, that would be too controlling...but wanting to read it first doesn't seem to be a bad thing. If the mother read the book first, then she could answer questions and be able to develop talking points with her daughter about it.

I've read "Are you There God, It's Me Margaret". I've also read "Forever", and several other books by Judy Blume. Her writing style never really appealed to me personally. I read the books because all my friends were reading them at the time. Tolkien, Clancy, Dickens, Mark Twain, Kipling, John Jakes, etc. were more my speed as far as authors I have preferred to read, even at a young age.

Frankly, with as scarce as reading is these days, if a child came to me and was excited about reading a book, I would not only let them do it, but strongly encourage it!

I was never discouraged from reading. What was really funny was, when I was in the 6th grade, my parents wouldn't let me see the movie, "Jaws", because it was rated PG. They thought it would be too scary. So I bought the book and read it. My Dad had no problem with my reading the book. Have any of you read Peter Benchley's "Jaws"? It's much more graphic than the movie ever came close to being. LOL
_guy sajer
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Post by _guy sajer »

The Nehor wrote:
Mister Scratch wrote:
The Nehor wrote:'cult-loving glassy eyed mom"?

Wow, you should be a prophet. I couldn't pull that out of the story.


Fair enough, but what is your explanation regarding the mom's motive? Could this legitimately be called "brainwashing"?


No, at most I think it's overprotective parenting. I doubt she's a brainwashing zealot. Those kinds of people would refuse to read the book themselves too. Also, I would be interested to know if the mother would have let her mother read it if the daughter still wished to. I think this is an innocent anecdote given sinister overtones by others.


I tend to agree with Nehor, and to a point with jskains, here.

Parents have the right to have a say in what their 12 year old children read in the home. I don't agree with her choice in this case, she is very too overprotective while stunting her child's intellectual development, but she's well within her rights.
God . . . "who mouths morals to other people and has none himself; who frowns upon crimes, yet commits them all; who created man without invitation, . . . and finally, with altogether divine obtuseness, invites this poor, abused slave to worship him ..."
_dartagnan
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Post by _dartagnan »

The concept of brainwashing has been discredited.

It doesn't exist.
“All knowledge of reality starts from experience and ends in it...Propositions arrived at by purely logical means are completely empty as regards reality." - Albert Einstein
_jskains
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Post by _jskains »

KimberlyAnn wrote:I have read Are You There, God? It's Me, Margaret. It's quite appropriate for a twelve year old girl.

Disallowing a twelve year old to read Judy Blume is ridiculous and poor parenting, but I'm not sure it's brainwashing. I DO believe there is plenty of indoctrination in Mormonism, and even brainwashing, in some instances, but this mother isn't guilty of that, in my opinion. She is doing her daughter a disservice by being too controlling.

Her daughter will read it anyway, if she really wants to. Then, if she has questions, she won't ask her mom. Instead, she'll ask kids at school.

KA


I don't think you have a right to cast it off as "poor parenting". just because you don't agree.

JMS
_guy sajer
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Post by _guy sajer »

dartagnan wrote:The concept of brainwashing has been discredited.

It doesn't exist.


Brainwashing in context of Mormonism or brainwashing in general?

Please explain.
God . . . "who mouths morals to other people and has none himself; who frowns upon crimes, yet commits them all; who created man without invitation, . . . and finally, with altogether divine obtuseness, invites this poor, abused slave to worship him ..."
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