Ray A: The Gandhi of Internet Mormonism?

[_Ray A]

Well, I will say if many exmormons are of the same bent as YOU, it may just be possible.

I think it's entirely possible - unless they repent. If it was possible for Paul the apostle, it's possible for anyone. Remember, Paul actually oversaw the murder of Christians.

But I will also say that YOU'RE the only exmormon I've ever met who expressed anything like YOUR F***ING MISSIONARIES ARE DEAD.

How many ex-Mormon private emails do you read? You know what they contain? You may be posting with ex-Mormons who've said worse, but you would never know. You posted on a board where such sentiments WERE expressed from time to time, did you even care? No, of course not, but you kept posting there. You ignored what was being said by some, and I quoted many of these on the old MDB.

What convenient memory lapse you're developing.

No, I'm going to do a Scratch now and call for CFR. WHERE and WHEN did you publicly, on RFM, condemn Steve Benson? I'm not talking about here, but there, and to Benson's FACE. Did you stand up to Benson on RFM as I did in 2002, and got banished from RFM because of it? Or did you give a dubious Pilate wave? And remember, this was PRIOR to ZLMB in 2003.

Oh, it was a private PM, sent to the Z mods.

Well, that makes it A-OK!!!

Did I ever say it was okay? Quite the contrary. But I did not, and would not make such threats publicly. I was angry with the mods on Z. at the time, not Mormons in general, and certainly not missionaries, and I've never made a physical threat against Mormons.

So where are all these public threats made by angry apostates that I'm ignoring?

That's what I mean, you're ignorant of this, and frankly, you don't care if it comes from angry ex-Mormons, at least certainly not enough to go fishing for the quotes, like you do mine and Dan's.

[_The Nehor]

It is an accusation I can't prove. However will you deny that you routinely use Bill 'Anti-Semite' Hamblin and other terms regularly? I came up with 4 instances of this or things like it and I didn't even look hard.

You did? Where, other than this thread?

Checkmate? HAHAHAHAHAAH. You haven't once responded to what I actually said.......here, I'm going to use big words.

THE PERSON WHO SHOULD THINK BILL HAMBLIN IS AN ANTI-SEMITE DOES NOT. WHY DO YOU SAY HE IS?

Look, Nehor, I wasn't going to bring this up, but I, too, passed this along to some Jewish friends. Every single one of them found Hamblin's diatribe to be both over-the-top, and grossly offensive. Perhaps your lone friend is an anomaly, eh? Further, why do I need to be Jewish in order to find Hamblin's harangue offensive? It seems to me that I can (and should) be appalled by this sort of behavior regardless of creed.

In any case: check and mate. I win again.

Merry Christmas Scratchie (I.e. the new McCarthy of Anti-Semitism).

Same to you, Bro.

Scratch, did you send the actual whole post or just the diatribe in the middle?

I played someone in chess like this Scratch. He refused to acknowledge when he was in check or that pieces move in logical patterns. It was almost a relief when his pawn jumped from the opposite side of the board to attack my kind and called out, "Checkmate."

I would think you would also then be apalled at anti-Mormon bigotry but you seem to fan those flames....or is it only faiths that you belong to that you harass?

[_Ray A]

Huh? Where did I "admit" that I lied? Or is this another one of your standard-issue misreadings?

This is what you wrote two pages ago:

Why should I be embarrassed at my own "foul language"? There is nothing "foul" about stating things plainly and directly. Certainly, I feel no shame in calling you and your "friends" rumor-mongering assholes---which, let's face it, you are. You guys helped to destroy people's lives. I feel no shame at called [sic] Ray A a "deranged prick" who blackmails people and breaks promises.

So, do you deny that you wrote in the PM that I was a "deranged prick"? (and both you and I know the truth here.)

[_Mister Scratch]

Scratch, did you send the actual whole post or just the diatribe in the middle?

What do you think? Anecdotal evidence sure is fun!

I played someone in chess like this Scratch. He refused to acknowledge when he was in check or that pieces move in logical patterns. It was almost a relief when his pawn jumped from the opposite side of the board to attack my kind and called out, "Checkmate."

Go ahead and keep feeling sad that Bill Hamblin screwed up, and that one of your precious Mopologists did something embarrassing.

by the way: are you going to provide examples of my supposedly always carrying on about "Bill 'the anti-semite' Hamblin"? Or have you already thrown in the towel?

I would think you would also then be apalled at anti-Mormon bigotry but you seem to fan those flames....

Now which "anti-Mormon bigotry" would you be referring to, Nehor? We've already established that it is not anywhere near equivalent to anti-semitic bigotry.... So, one would hardly expect there to be any "flames". Maybe the occasional spark; but "flames"? I don't think so. Or would you care to offer any real examples?

or is it only faiths that you belong to that you harass?

Well, I do have that right, despite what the Brethren have said.

[_beastie]

I think it's entirely possible - unless they repent. If it was possible for Paul the apostle, it's possible for anyone. Remember, Paul actually oversaw the murder of Christians.

Now that's a deeply disturbing thought, that Ray is not a minority in his capacity to imagine violence, but rather common.

Well, who knows. Until I see evidence that there's a bunch of Rays running around emailing threats of violence against Mormons, I just don't believe it's happening.

How many ex-Mormon private emails do you read? You know what they contain? You may be posting with ex-Mormons who've said worse, but you would never know. You posted on a board where such sentiments WERE expressed from time to time, did you even care? No, of course not, but you kept posting there. You ignored what was being said by some, and I quoted many of these on the old MDB.

No, Ray, you're wrong. In all my years posting with other exmormons, I never saw ONE actually threaten to hurt any Mormon, the way you did. The closest is what Dan and you talked about over on MAD, someone talking about going back in time and killing Joseph Smith. That's it. And I don't believe you ever quoted anyone actually threatening violence.

No, I'm going to do a Scratch now and call for CFR. WHERE and WHEN did you publicly, on RFM, condemn Steve Benson? I'm not talking about here, but there, and to Benson's FACE. Did you stand up to Benson on RFM as I did in 2002, and got banished from RFM because of it? Or did you give a dubious Pilate wave? And remember, this was PRIOR to ZLMB in 2003.

I have no memory of your banning, or what preceded it. I stood up to Benson repeatedly during the Pious Fraud saga which you witnessed, but now have conveniently forgotten. You know I can't reproduce the conversation because they don't archive. But I notice that you're now focusing on Benson, while ignoring the Cabbie episode. You can hardly pretend you don't remember that one, since you recently proclaimed Cabbie had been right in his insults (ie, calling me a product of incest).

Did I ever say it was okay? Quite the contrary. But I did not, and would not make such threats publicly. I was angry with the mods on Z. at the time, not Mormons in general, and certainly not missionaries, and I've never made a physical threat against Mormons.

You were mad at the mods, so told them their F***ING MISSIONARIES ARE DEAD.

You are one sick dude.

hat's what I mean, you're ignorant of this, and frankly, you don't care if it comes from angry ex-Mormons, at least certainly not enough to go fishing for the quotes, like you do mine and Dan's.

Well, you're not ignorant of it evidently. So find all these threats for us and provide links to where these threats are occurring.

by the way, I didn't "fish" for those quotes. I remembered them quite clearly.

[Guest]

Let me remind you that this was a private email, NOT a public statement. It was uncovered by Gad because he's a committed anti-Mormon (just like you),

Yeah...sort of. Though I believe what I said was something like, "If someone were to say X, wouldn't that be much worse?" Sneaky, I admit, but you owned it immediately. I never said that you did in fact say that. And it's not like I saved all those messages. I don't have them. There would have been no way for me to prove it even if I wanted to, had you denied it. It would have been your word against mine, I wouldn't have pushed it. I wonder who DCP would have believed? (as an aside)

But let's not blame my anti-Mormonism for it (are you even Mormon, Ray?). I admit that it may have been a bit on the unethical side. I had held off for years, but good Lord Ray, your violent verbal attacks, crude language, and uncalled for inflamed accusations at the harm "anti-Mormons" are going to do to the world (with literal physical harm and all) pushed my already low moral fiber to the max. There are plenty of committed Mormons (are you even technically Mormon, Ray?) I know things about from being a ZLMB mod, and the thought of making any of it public doesn't even cross my mind or interest me. Most of it I've forgotten. If there is a God, then your situation was the trial of Abraham, given the extreme over-the-top hypocrisy in addition to the fact that your "personal correspondence" meets the criteria of "correspondence" on the utmost minimal level. It was A) to a group of at lest 5-10 who had access B) completely uninvited C) not responded to and D) basically threatening hate-mail that was not part of any kind of conversation between yourself and the moderators. No one was having a conversation with you Ray.

Let me ask you a question. If an anti-Mormon on this forum, out of the blue, sends you a series of 4 or 5 PMs, all with one or two line threats and nothing more, including the implication of intent to do bodily harm to somebody, and all these PMs you just ignore and you do not in any way engage in a conversation with the sender, are you really going to consider that "private correspondence" that needs to be guarded with the utmost principled devotion?

As for Scratch, if it becomes revealed that he lied, I will publicly call him to repentance and state my disapproval.

As for the threats by anti-Mormons, can you name a few? I'm just not seeing them.

[_Mister Scratch]

Huh? Where did I "admit" that I lied? Or is this another one of your standard-issue misreadings?

This is what you wrote two pages ago:

Why should I be embarrassed at my own "foul language"? There is nothing "foul" about stating things plainly and directly. Certainly, I feel no shame in calling you and your "friends" rumor-mongering assholes---which, let's face it, you are. You guys helped to destroy people's lives. I feel no shame at called [sic] Ray A a "deranged prick" who blackmails people and breaks promises.

So, do you deny that you wrote in the PM that I was a "deranged prick"? (and both you and I know the truth here.)

No, I don't deny that. Do you deny blackmailing me and breaking your promise to not post my PMs?

[_The Nehor]

Scratch, did you send the actual whole post or just the diatribe in the middle?

What do you think? Anecdotal evidence sure is fun!

I played someone in chess like this Scratch. He refused to acknowledge when he was in check or that pieces move in logical patterns. It was almost a relief when his pawn jumped from the opposite side of the board to attack my kind and called out, "Checkmate."

Go ahead and keep feeling sad that Bill Hamblin screwed up, and that one of your precious Mopologists did something embarrassing.

by the way: are you going to provide examples of my supposedly always carrying on about "Bill 'the anti-semite' Hamblin"? Or have you already thrown in the towel?

I would think you would also then be apalled at anti-Mormon bigotry but you seem to fan those flames....

Now which "anti-Mormon bigotry" would you be referring to, Nehor? We've already established that it is not anywhere near equivalent to anti-semitic bigotry.... So, one would hardly expect there to be any "flames". Maybe the occasional spark; but "flames"? I don't think so. Or would you care to offer any real examples?

or is it only faiths that you belong to that you harass?

Well, I do have that right, despite what the Brethren have said.

Again, I don't know Hamblin. I don't think I've even read anything he wrote.

Nice anecdotal rejoiner. I assume you were lying with yours then and not actually presenting information. I always assume I win when my opponent makes stuff up. I'll just call checkmate then. Night.

[_beastie]

You know, when the YOUR F***ING MISSIONARIES ARE DEAD was first revealed, I had completely forgotten this part of Ray's past diatribe:

If some dork speaks about "killing Mormon missionaries", I do not care a fig if anyone else sees this as merely words. I take this very seriously. And to all the little minds who think this thread has no substance - THINK AGAIN! And to all of you who quote Jesus, remember that out of the mouth come blasphemies, threats, and bile, which reflect the intentions of the heart. This is a verbal hatred that could one day turn to physical violence. And the more you speak and publish your BILE, the more the sick minds will be encouraged.

I mean, really. Could anyone be any more hypocritical and deceptive? And, If I recall correctly, one of Ray's explanations of his threat was that no one took him seriously. Yet here he affirms that HE would certainly take it seriously!

[_Mister Scratch]

Let me ask you a question. If an anti-Mormon on this forum, out of the blue, sends you a series of 4 or 5 PMs, all with one or two line threats and nothing more, including the intent to do bodily harm to somebody, and all these PMs you just ignore and you do not in any way engage in a conversation with the sender, are you really going to consider that "private correspondence" that needs to be guarded with the utmost principled devotion?

Come now, Gad---Ray doesn't care in the least about guarding "private correspondence." Just look at what he wrote to me before flipping out and posting stuff I'd written:

If you are prepared to tell me more about your grievances, and your background, I am prepared to listen, and keep it private. I have NO correspondence with DCP, and haven't for a long time. But I'm genuinely interested in learning what motivates you. And I DO NOT share the content of private emails.

(emphasis added)

In actuality, notions of "honour" do not govern what Ray does or not do; rather, it is his temper (or lack of control thereof) which determines Ray's morality and ethics.