Ray A: The Gandhi of Internet Mormonism?

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_Ray A

Post by _Ray A »

Mister Scratch wrote:In other words, your morals and ethics are totally conditional. You are a blackmailer and a breaker of your word, mate. How ashamed you must feel!


I can go as low as you do in this regard, but, at least, I'm not a brazen liar who alters posts to DECEIVE board participants. I owned up immediately to the "missionaries" comment. You ALTERED a PM, knowing I had that verbatim PM in my inbox. You're not only a liar, but a miserably inept one.
_Ray A

Post by _Ray A »

harmony wrote:
Ray A wrote: Did you alter the post where you called me a "deranged prick"?


Why is this such a problem? Is there some internal angst against being called a prick? or is the deranged part the problem?


Not at all. This is not the issue. The issue is whether Scratch lied, and altered a PM. He did.
_Gadianton
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Post by _Gadianton »

Ray,

Gadianton wrote:But let's not blame my anti-Mormonism for it (are you even Mormon, Ray?).


You admitted on MDB in the past you are an anti-Mormon, without a blink.


Interesting Ray, I had written "let's not blame my anti-Mormonism", which, tell me Ray

A) Denies that I'm an "anti-Mormon"
B) Admits that I'm "anti-Mormon"

Once you correctly pick "B", then move on to the real question of how on earth any attack or betrayal of you (if such a thing did occur) can be considered "anti-Mormon", when you're not even Mormon?

Of course they should have been concerned. I have been threated with death through email, but I didn't take it seriously because I knew the person was also in an angry frame of mind, and was thousands of miles away.


Well that's fine Ray, here you say you didn't take it seriously and in the material Beastie brought up, you do take it seriously. Both miss the point. The question was, would you feel the need to keep such unsolicited online threats that were not part of any conversation strictly confidential?

Do you look for them? I posted several in one thread on the old MDB, but I don't think you were there, and these are saved on my old PC, not this one. But I'm quite certain I can find current ones.


I'm ready and willing to hear you out. I'll be curious how you will like me to react if they are strangers. If you cite evidence that Beastie, Scratch, Shades, or any of my buddies on this forum engaged in threatening language towards Mormons (all my family who I love are Mormons) it will be a serious barrier to my continued association and friendship with them.
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.

LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.
_Ray A

Post by _Ray A »

Mister Scratch wrote:
Ray A wrote:The larger issue here is, Scratch: DID you lie? Did you alter the post where you called me a "deranged prick"?


No, I did not alter that post. It was dated, going out of my Sentbox, on Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:37 pm.


Readers - you're witnessing the new Mark Hofmann.
_Mister Scratch
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Post by _Mister Scratch »

Ray A wrote:
Mister Scratch wrote:In other words, your morals and ethics are totally conditional. You are a blackmailer and a breaker of your word, mate. How ashamed you must feel!


I can go as low as you do in this regard, but, at least, I'm not a brazen liar who alters posts to DECEIVE board participants.


You are a "brazen liar," as my above citation of your posting amply demonstrates. Further, I never made any promises to you about keeping your PMs private. Given your incessant hounding of me up and down the board, did you really expect me to treat your condescending and whack-job PMs with the utmost respect?

I owned up immediately to the "missionaries" comment. You ALTERED a PM, knowing I had that verbatim PM in my inbox. You're not only a liar, but a miserably inept one.


I did not alter the "deranged prick" PM in any way whatsoever, Ray. In fact, I will say it again: you are a deranged prick.
_beastie
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Post by _beastie »

And, by the way, based on Ray's emotional volatility expressed on this board, I feel safe assuming the only thing that's changed about him are his loyalties.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

Penn & Teller

http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com
_Mister Scratch
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Post by _Mister Scratch »

Ray A wrote:
Mister Scratch wrote:
Ray A wrote:The larger issue here is, Scratch: DID you lie? Did you alter the post where you called me a "deranged prick"?


No, I did not alter that post. It was dated, going out of my Sentbox, on Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:37 pm.


Readers - you're witnessing the new Mark Hofmann.


Ray---you are dead wrong here. This message, dated Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:37 pm--i.e., the "deranged prick" message--was not altered. Keene and Dr. Shades hereby have my permission to "snoop" into my message box in order to look at this specific PM. In fact, I will forward the PM in its entirety to Dr. Shades right now. I would prefer, though, that the message be kept private. Shades and/or Keene can verify whether or not I have altered it in any way.

Edited to add: you can go ahead and submit the "deranged prick" message you received, Ray, and Dr. Shades can inspect it.
_Daniel Peterson
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Post by _Daniel Peterson »

beastie wrote:Of course you're not going to publicly condemn Ray, although he said something far, far worse than others whom you HAVE publicly condemned, and "diagnosed".

I condemn what people post and what people write, when it deserves condemnation. On the whole, I don't condemn people as such.

Am I fan of what you tell me Ray wrote? No.

Do I know anything much about it? No. Do I publicly condemn all unfortunate or reprehensible statements? No. (There are probably several hundred million of them each day that I fail to condemn.) Do I enter every quarrel? No, I don't.

Will I condemn Ray altogether? Certainly not. That's Scratch territory.

As I've said, I know Ray, and I like him. I'm aware that he's gone through difficult times, and he's had some rough things to say about and to me in the past, as well. But I respect Ray. I think he's a very honest man. And I'm not an obsessive holder of grudges. That's Scratch territory.

beastie wrote:You're just not interested.

Not much. I don't go around seeking reasons to get upset, or looking for grounds upon which to condemn people. (That's Scratch's job.)

Apparently unlike some here, I don't see much point in amateur psychology -- truth be told, it's always been a pet dislike of mine -- nor in denouncing people as "wack-jobs," etc., on message boards.

beastie wrote:You are, however, "fascinated" by the repulsive behavior of RFM

Yes, I am. And that's because it doesn't represent a single outburst, or the comments, even over time, of a single individual. What fascinates me about RfM is that certain truly vicious sentiments are expressed there and are, on the whole, received well (certainly without much protest) by a kind of community. Do you see the difference? Whether you do or not, I do. And that's the salient fact for me.

beastie wrote:you would point out the hypocrisy and vile sentiments with relish, and pretend that it's some sort of statement about "recovery" from Mormonism?

See above.

However, as it happens, I've generally been pretty careful to point out that not everybody on RfM is cut from the same cloth, and to note that only a portion of RfM posters put up the hateful, over-the-top items that I quote. What I fault RfM for is the fact that it's a nurturing, relatively supportive, and certainly non-condemning environment for such statements. And, unlike this place, not because it's essentially unmoderated.

For the record, I think, on account of several considerations, that Scratch almost certainly lied, baldfacedly, about altering the personal message that he sent to Ray. That doesn't seem to bother you, for some reason. Instead, you want to drag me into ginned up indignation over some old private ZLMB message that you've recovered from . . . how many years ago? I find the difference in your reactions to the two cases striking.

Nevertheless, I hope that your neurochemical brain functions will be compatible with the subjective state called "happiness" during the winter solstice period, and that your cellular processes and those associated with the genetically closest carbon units to you will be optimal.
_Ray A

Post by _Ray A »

Mister Scratch wrote:
Ray A wrote:
Mister Scratch wrote:
Ray A wrote:The larger issue here is, Scratch: DID you lie? Did you alter the post where you called me a "deranged prick"?


No, I did not alter that post. It was dated, going out of my Sentbox, on Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:37 pm.


Readers - you're witnessing the new Mark Hofmann.


Ray---you are dead wrong here. This message, dated Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:37 pm--I.e., the "deranged prick" message--was not altered. Keene and Dr. Shades hereby have my permission to "snoop" into my message box in order to look at this specific PM. In fact, I will forward the PM in its entirety to Dr. Shades right now. I would prefer, though, that the message be kept private. Shades and/or Keene can verify whether or not I have altered it in any way.


You're getting tangled in a web here, Scratch. Here was my full post:

Ray A wrote:Okay Scratch, I will go to your level. Don't depend on my mercy here:

Scratch's PMs to me:

Baloney, Ray. You have been hounding me up and down the board for several weeks now, you deranged prick. It seems clear to me that the only reason you've been doing this is just to stir up a reaction. Way to go, Ray!


I wrote:

"For someone with four degrees".

Scratch's reply:

Ah, this was precisely what I expected from you. A personal attack. Now, supposing that I was honest, and that I really do have "four degrees," then you would be guilty of mining personal information from me in order to attack me. Not very nice, Ray!


This is what Scratch calls a "personal attack".

More:

In the end, Ray, you don't know anything about me. You still sit at square one. You call me "dishonest," so, am I? Have I been lying about everything? Gee, I guess you'll never know! Ha ha ha!

G'night, mate!


No, no one will ever know!

More:

F*** you, Ray. I'm not telling you s***. You are obviously just a boneheaded hick who probably learned his lessons about life from the Book of Mormon and from fortune cookies. I couldn't care less what happens to the Church or DCP. I don't care who listens, or what gets "accomplished". Life is satisfying enough just watching your dumb self fly off the handle again and again. Go ahead and go to bed. Shove your head up your ass while you're at it, you condescending son of bitch.
(my emphasis)


Shall I go on?


HERE WAS YOUR REPLY to THAT post:

Mister Scratch wrote:Well now, this *is* intriguing.... Because I don't recall my PMs reading very much like that at all, Ray! Gee, you are not re-writing stuff in order to save face, are you Ray? I know you have an anger management problem, and that you carry on about all this "honour" that you have (including never posting PMs---so much for that, eh?), but shall we add manipulative dishonesty to your list of faults?

This was my post to you, copied verbatim from my Outbox:

Forget it, Ray. I'm not telling you anything. You are obviously just a boneheaded hick who probably learned his lessons about life from fortune cookies. I couldn't care less what happens to the Church or DCP. I don't care who listens, or what gets "accomplished". Life is satisfying enough just watching your dumb self fly off the handle again and again. Go ahead and go to bed.


So, what, did you just throw in all the profanity since that's what Church "critics" do, Ray? You know, because of your "Amazing Kresin"-esque mind reading abilities? That sure is a nifty trick!


You quoted portions of the PM correctly, then ALTERED the cruder parts!!

"F*** you, Ray"

became

"Forget it, Ray".

"Go ahead and go to bed. Shove your head up your ass while you're at it, you condescending son of bitch."

Became:

"Life is satisfying enough just watching your dumb self fly off the handle again and again. Go ahead and go to bed"
_harmony
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Post by _harmony »

Daniel Peterson wrote:Nevertheless, I hope that your neurochemical brain functions will be compatible with the subjective state called "happiness" during the winter solstice period, and that your cellular processes and those associated with the genetically closest carbon units to you will be optimal.


Okay, that is funny! :-D
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