This is why critics are so relentless...
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I just have to quote this one:
All I can say is...Wow! Who gave these answers?
Note the last sentence which I bolded.
This is not only massively side-stepping the question, but really is not correct.
Q: Does the Mormon Church believe its followers can become "gods and goddesses" after death?
A: We believe that the apostle Peter’s biblical reference to partaking of the divine nature and the apostle Paul’s reference to being 'joint heirs with Christ' reflect the intent that children of God should strive to emulate their Heavenly Father in every way. Throughout the eternities, Mormons believe, they will reverence and worship God the Father and Jesus Christ. The goal is not to equal them or to achieve parity with them but to imitate and someday acquire their perfect goodness, love and other divine attributes.
All I can say is...Wow! Who gave these answers?
Note the last sentence which I bolded.
This is not only massively side-stepping the question, but really is not correct.
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Q: Does the Mormon Church believe its followers can become "gods and goddesses" after death?
A: We believe that the apostle Peter’s biblical reference to partaking of the divine nature and the apostle Paul’s reference to being 'joint heirs with Christ' reflect the intent that children of God should strive to emulate their Heavenly Father in every way. Throughout the eternities, Mormons believe, they will reverence and worship God the Father and Jesus Christ. The goal is not to equal them or to achieve parity with them but to imitate and someday acquire their perfect goodness, love and other divine attributes.
This is a bullcrap answer. It's dishonest in that it attempts to downplay something that is very much taught in the church. The question is whether Mormons believe they can become "gods and goddesses", not whether they will achieve parity with or equal Jesus and Elohim. The only correct answer to the question that was asked is YES. This cannot be disputed in any kind of serious way.
A correct answer to this question might have looked like this:
A: Mormons believe that they will always worship God the Father through Jesus Christ, as their God and Savior. Mormons believe, however, that they will become Gods and Goddesses in their own right, and have eternal posterity who will then undergo the same testing and return to them, as they underwent and returned to their own Father, as the Father underwent and returned to his Father, etc. It's turtles all the way down, baby!
edit: ARG! Liz posted hers while I was writing up mine.
Mormonism ceased being a compelling topic for me when I finally came to terms with its transformation from a personality cult into a combination of a real estate company, a SuperPac, and Westboro Baptist Church. - Kishkumen
Sethbag wrote:A correct answer to this question might have looked like this:
A: Mormons believe that they will always worship God the Father through Jesus Christ, as their God and Savior. Mormons believe, however, that they will become Gods and Goddesses in their own right, and have eternal posterity who will then undergo the same testing and return to them, as they underwent and returned to their own Father, as the Father underwent and returned to his Father, etc.
Exactly, Sethbag! As a member, this is how I would have answered that question. You nailed it!
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liz3564 wrote:Sethbag wrote:A correct answer to this question might have looked like this:
A: Mormons believe that they will always worship God the Father through Jesus Christ, as their God and Savior. Mormons believe, however, that they will become Gods and Goddesses in their own right, and have eternal posterity who will then undergo the same testing and return to them, as they underwent and returned to their own Father, as the Father underwent and returned to his Father, etc.
Exactly, Sethbag! As a member, this is how I would have answered that question. You nailed it!
That's why they don't let members answer the questions, I guess, and why they have a PR department to carefully craft worded statements that appear-on-their-face-to-be-answering-the-question-but-really-aren't.
Kolob's gone. Other planets with gods and goddesses are gone. All in one fell swoop.
Later, someone will say that the person who gave the answers "wasn't speaking as a prophet," so it doesn't matter.
The road is beautiful, treacherous, and full of twists and turns.
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The "other planet" thing was always a dubious claim. But that I mean it was always dubious to claim Mormons believe they'd get their own planet or whatever. In my own beliefs in Mormonism, it was that I'd get my own universe. Forget planet, that's thinking small. In my version of Mormon beliefs, Elohim was God over this universe, and those of us who became Gods in our own right would be Gods over our own universes.
So I don't think it's correct to say Mormons believe they'll "get their own planet" or whatever. That's not it, really. At least it wasn't it in my mind. I don't know how many of you all thought you'd get your own planet, but if you did, I just have to say you were thinking too small. ;-)
So I don't think it's correct to say Mormons believe they'll "get their own planet" or whatever. That's not it, really. At least it wasn't it in my mind. I don't know how many of you all thought you'd get your own planet, but if you did, I just have to say you were thinking too small. ;-)
Mormonism ceased being a compelling topic for me when I finally came to terms with its transformation from a personality cult into a combination of a real estate company, a SuperPac, and Westboro Baptist Church. - Kishkumen
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Re: This is why critics are so relentless...
jskains wrote:That is your belief.
What?
I would have answered the questions in line with LDS scripture, and past prophetic teachings.
Why does everyone have to support your belief?
Where did i ever claim this?
WK: "Joseph Smith asserted that the Book of Mormon peoples were the original inhabitants of the americas"
Will Schryver: "No, he didn’t." 3/19/08
Still waiting for Will to back this up...
Will Schryver: "No, he didn’t." 3/19/08
Still waiting for Will to back this up...
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Sethbag wrote:Q: Does the Mormon Church believe its followers can become "gods and goddesses" after death?
A: We believe that the apostle Peter’s biblical reference to partaking of the divine nature and the apostle Paul’s reference to being 'joint heirs with Christ' reflect the intent that children of God should strive to emulate their Heavenly Father in every way. Throughout the eternities, Mormons believe, they will reverence and worship God the Father and Jesus Christ. The goal is not to equal them or to achieve parity with them but to imitate and someday acquire their perfect goodness, love and other divine attributes.
This is a bullcrap answer. It's dishonest in that it attempts to downplay something that is very much taught in the church. The question is whether Mormons believe they can become "gods and goddesses", not whether they will achieve parity with or equal Jesus and Elohim. The only correct answer to the question that was asked is YES. This cannot be disputed in any kind of serious way.
A correct answer to this question might have looked like this:
A: Mormons believe that they will always worship God the Father through Jesus Christ, as their God and Savior. Mormons believe, however, that they will become Gods and Goddesses in their own right, and have eternal posterity who will then undergo the same testing and return to them, as they underwent and returned to their own Father, as the Father underwent and returned to his Father, etc. It's turtles all the way down, baby!
edit: ARG! Liz posted hers while I was writing up mine.
Like liz and sethbag I was also blown away by that particular "answer." Though I suppose after "I don't know that we teach that," I shouldn't be surprised about anything.
Also disturbing were the two or three places where consecutive questions were answered with exactly the same answer. From a PR vantage that's more shocking as it sounds like a robotic reading of can't-be-deviated-from script.
I wonder what kind of answers I would get if I queried a cross section of Mormon members? Of course, it would be hard to stick to these questions and not include follow-up ones. It could end up being quite a fascinating document with a wide range of responses all of which would, in my opinion, probably be a more accurate representation of Mormon belief than these evasions.
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."
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I do think it's very sad that the LDS church is reduced to a PR spin machine, and can't, or won't provide honest, complete answers that aren't attempts to sidestep the question or evade, to very simple questions about what it is that Mormons actually believe.
We can send out 50,000 full-time missionaries to convert the world, but we can't honestly answer a handful of questions about what we believe? What is this, some kind of huge secret or something?
We can send out 50,000 full-time missionaries to convert the world, but we can't honestly answer a handful of questions about what we believe? What is this, some kind of huge secret or something?
Mormonism ceased being a compelling topic for me when I finally came to terms with its transformation from a personality cult into a combination of a real estate company, a SuperPac, and Westboro Baptist Church. - Kishkumen
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They forgot one very important Q&A:
Q: Is it against the Mormon church to lie?
A: See above answers and decide for yourself.
These kinds of answers remind me of religious folks who, when asked a question that naturally has an outrageous religious answer, lower their voice to hushed tones so that nobody can overhear the stupidity coming out of their mouths. It's as if they know unconsciously that the pre-recorded answer sucks ass, and they're embarrassed to be repeating it.
Q: Is it against the Mormon church to lie?
A: See above answers and decide for yourself.
These kinds of answers remind me of religious folks who, when asked a question that naturally has an outrageous religious answer, lower their voice to hushed tones so that nobody can overhear the stupidity coming out of their mouths. It's as if they know unconsciously that the pre-recorded answer sucks ass, and they're embarrassed to be repeating it.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.