MishMagnet wrote:I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish here.
I think I made it fairly clear. What part do I need to clarify?
JMS
Why you are going to raise your child in a church that says it's the only true church if you don't think it's the only true church. And if you do think it's the only true church why throw the option in there.
I answered that in the very first post.
JMS
I'm seeing nothing in your first post stating if you think the church is true or not and why you would want to raise your child in a church that claims to be the only true church if you are not of that opinion. If you ARE of that opinion then it's more of an illusion of a choice.
My kids have the choice to go to college but we're saving for college and I plug college at every opportunity. Although they do have the choice to go to college it's only with the condition that I'm going to be very dissapointed if they do not.
Perhaps you meant your first post on this board, I don't know. I haven't been following your posts here.
Congratulations on the baby.
Insert ironic quote from fellow board member here.
MishMagnet wrote:I'm not sure what you are trying to accomplish here.
I think I made it fairly clear. What part do I need to clarify?
JMS
Why you are going to raise your child in a church that says it's the only true church if you don't think it's the only true church. And if you do think it's the only true church why throw the option in there.
I answered that in the very first post.
JMS
I'm seeing nothing in your first post stating if you think the church is true or not and why you would want to raise your child in a church that claims to be the only true church if you are not of that opinion. If you ARE of that opinion then it's more of an illusion of a choice.
My kids have the choice to go to college but we're saving for college and I plug college at every opportunity. Although they do have the choice to go to college it's only with the condition that I'm going to be very dissapointed if they do not.
Perhaps you meant your first post on this board, I don't know. I haven't been following your posts here.
Congratulations on the baby.
As I said in the first post:
"How can I ensure that while I would LIKE this child to be Mormon, they had a choice like I did?"
JMS
Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition from Mediocre Minds - Albert Einstein
You may consider not even talking to or asking questions to your child. Only let them talk to you. And be sure to only go where they say they want to go. Infact, you maybe not want to touch them, even. We wouldn't want to culture kids in any manner that may affect their decisions or put pressure on them.
You may want to even keep them away from society, any society, completely. Dropping them in the woods may not even be wise as the wolves are bound to influence the baby (see Jungle Book).
jskains wrote:I know, I said I was going to only post in the Celestial forum, but I do have a question I thought I would ask the group and see if we could have a serious and mature discusion without serious confinement.
First off, I know I have been a bit of an ass. There are reasons which I could go into, but lets reset for a second, because I think from the reactions I got from you folks, that I can ask this one question I really need answered. I need both sides to chime in, but there are reasons I want people critical of the church to comment.
One of the reasons I am likely going to move on from this board is now I do have a baby coming (our first) mixed in with some big projects for my business starting next week (which is why I have time on my hands now... I am waiting for the servers to arrive).....
(Also, we get to find out what the sex is on the 27th.)
I hope you can be nice cause I want a serious answer. How can I ensure that while I would LIKE this child to be Mormon, they had a choice like I did? Would going with them to other Churches help? Books?
I don't want to SHOVE Mormonism down the kid's throat. And I refuse to do the "testemony coaching" crap parents do. My wife and I have already accepted that if the kid choses another religion, we will support them in that. We will give them our concerns, but if that is their choice, then that is that.
I hope this thread goes well, because this is an honest concern I have....
And for you that are Ex-Mormons who grew up in the Church, please think of the things you would have liked your parents to have done.
Thanks, JMS
I church hopped on and off all of my life and became a wild child, heathen, hedonistic driven, carnal animal. I say go for it! It being the church hopping!:)
Mercury wrote:There is no way to raise a child correctly in Mormonism. Children raised in Mormonism see the church as the real family, the child's parents are just a supporting role to them as the kids brains are cooked by mind numbingly ignorant forms of thinking.
Shades is correct. make church attendance non-mandatory. No child likes to go to church. Its antithetical to their need to have fun and enjoy life.
Merc, dangit, you keep changing your icon... And I'm in total agreement with you.
Changing over to Clements is the first time I changed my icon since I attained Godhood.
And crawling on the planet's face Some insects called the human race Lost in time And lost in space...and meaning
Thank you all for some of the comments. I plan to take them all to heart. I know I have a lot of time before I need to worry about some of these issues, but I plan to think about them for some time.
JMS
Great Spirits Have Always Encountered Violent Opposition from Mediocre Minds - Albert Einstein
I find it hard to believe that you would allow your child a choice in the matters of religion. By the time your child is old enough to decide they will have already been influenced by you and your wife and the Mormon church. You will be blessing the child into the church, you will be taking them to primary and Sunday School for years before they will be ready to make their own choice as to which religion to follow.
If your child actually decides to follow another religion you and your wife will be offended, taken aback, and hurt.
When parents already have a religion that they have embraced it is highly unlikely that the parents will welcome another religion into their lives. I can't imagine a family that is Mormon watching their child go to another religion and bringing the beliefs home and the family getting along. Mormons believe that they are the only true religion and all others are false, how will your child actully feel knowing that you look down your nose at him because he is a different religion?
My children were raised with no religion, they were exposed to many different religions while they were growing up in Utah, they were highly exposed to the Mormon faith much to my displeasure. I was raised in the church with it being shoved down my throat. I have shoved nothing down my childrens throat and they are so far and will probably always be religion free.
You would have to start from day one and not allow any influence from any belief take precedence in your lives. Children are easily influenced by their parents.
I think it is interesting you want to give your child a choice, but I don't think you have thought it through.
Allowing a child to choose their own religion is like telling them they can decide when to go to bed at night. It just doesn't work. A child can't choose their own religion until they are way past being a child, by the time they can make a intelligent decision they are more likely to be a young adult and by then if you have not kept things balanced they will not be making an informed and intelligent decision as to what they want to be.They will choose the religion that has influenced them the most they will choose to follow their parents religion and the religion of their peers. A child that has been raised with Mormon peers is going to choose to follow their peers. So you can't allow your child to be influenced by their peers either because they will not be making an informed decision.
My oldest son who is now 30, almost joined the church because of his peers, he wanted to fit in and most of his peers were Mormons. He was seventeen and we would not give our permission for him to be baptized and by the time he was eighteen he realized that there was no burning in his bussom for the church. He had grown up and realized what a mistke he would have made had he actually went through and became a Mormon.
Allowing a child from a Mormon background choose their own religion is easier said than done. You mean well. You have the best intentions but you have no idea what is yet to come.
When I wake up I will be hungry....but this feels so good right now aaahhhhhh........
I believe my father raised me in a way that I always felt like I had a choice in my beliefs and that he always supported me. First of all, my dad was Catholic and my mom was Baptist. My dad had the opinion that it was more important to believe in the spirit of the laws than the letter of the laws. My parents asked me when I was 10 or so if I wanted to be baptized in our Presbyterian church, but I did not. I waited until I was 20 and was baptized into LDS church.
I agree that 8 is too young for a child to make a choice on a religion for the rest of their lives, but if you restrict him from making that decision at 8 (even if the decision is made because all his friends are doing it), then you have already taught him that what he thinks doesn't matter. If he wants to be baptized at 8 to show his feelings at that time--let him. Of course, people are rational beings with brains, and sometimes they change their minds after thinking better of something. I see nothing wrong with disavowing previous (as a child) beliefs if one feels contrary thereto at a later date. If your child decides when he's older to not go on a mission or not go to church, you should encourage him to do as he feels in his heart (provided it isn't anything that is illegal or obviously destructive). Then when he is 18, he can do what he pleases anyway. Encourage him (if he chooses to bare his testimony) to say what he really feels in his heart--the same with prayers--not just what everyone else says. Ask him what he thinks on things (from religious beliefs to world affairs) and show acceptance when he replies (after all, children will do anything for their parent's love and acceptance, and he should think that your acceptance will always be given him no matter what).
Now, there are certain things like playing with fire and letting strangers touch him that you should tell him are wrong, but be sure to tell him why--children are born to be philosophers themselves, so reasoning with them is a sign of respect, whereas saying "because I said so" is condescending. Now these latter things that are beyond doubt as dangerous are the things that anyone on this board would agree with--no matter what ideology we have here, I'm sure we would all agree that children need to be kept safe from pedophiles and matches.
Another important thing is to not live in Utah or a community where there is little diversity. You should not be arrogant about your opinions towards other faiths or ideologies (including homosexuality--for perhaps your child will be one)...instead, you should voice all your opinions and feelings with humility "I'm not sure....", "I feel...", or "I believe...." are good ways to be respectful when voicing opinions. Also, it isn't a good thing to use the word "know" on much of anything. People use and abuse that word like nothing else. Knowledge requires a justified true belief, and those prerequisites are seldom met to a surety. In other words, don't be rudely opinionated.
D&C 68: 25
25 And again, inasmuch as parents have children in Zion, or in any of her stakes which are organized, that teach them not to understand the doctrine of repentance, faith in Christ the Son of the living God, and of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of the hands, when eight years old, the sin be upon the heads of the parents.
So if your cool with your childrens sins being on your head until they decide to get baptised when they are older, then by all means don't baptise them.
And besides, what kid needs the Holy Ghosts influence while they're gowing up?
Gaz
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
I think it is important to instill in any child the qualities of being open minded and tolerant of diversity in others. In the Mormon Church in particular, I think it is important not to let children get caught up in any unthinking allegiance or obedience to secular and religious authority. It is also important to give female children extra encouragement as to realizing their abilities and potentials.