This is why critics are so relentless...

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_Mister Scratch
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Post by _Mister Scratch »

Yeah, you know, this whole shebang is just unspeakably bad. What an embarrassment. The lazy repetitions of answers, the distortion, everything. Who ever penned these answers ought to be disfellowshipped. In any case, this was my fave:

Q: Does the Mormon Church believe that women can only gain access to heaven with a special pass or codewords?

A: No.


Lol....
_beastie
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Post by _beastie »

The church made a bad move in being deceptive, at least in regards to gods and goddesses. Word will quickly spread that they weren't on the up and up, and that will make them look far worse than the honest answer would have made them look.
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_asbestosman
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Post by _asbestosman »

beastie wrote:The church made a bad move in being deceptive, at least in regards to gods and goddesses. Word will quickly spread that they weren't on the up and up, and that will make them look far worse than the honest answer would have made them look.


I wonder what would happen if Exmos organized and started replying to blogs just like Elder Ballard asked church members to do.

The internet may help clear up some misconceptions, but will that really be a net gain for the church? Will it really be a net loss? I think in the end it won't change much at all.
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_beastie
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Post by _beastie »

I wonder what would happen if Exmos organized and started replying to blogs just like Elder Ballard asked church members to do.

The internet may help clear up some misconceptions, but will that really be a net gain for the church? Will it really be a net loss? I think in the end it won't change much at all.


I think the point of this was political, to try and make people feel comfortable with Romney's religion. When people find out - and they will - that Romney's religion is willing to be, if not outright dishonest, then extraordinarily misleading, they are not going to feel comfortable with Romney's religion. In that sense, I think it will be a loss.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

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_Gadianton
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Re: This is why critics are so relentless...

Post by _Gadianton »

jskains wrote:I went to the site and there is a bit of deception.

First Fox claimed the Church didn't want to answer the questions. Then notice there is a lot of repeats to the questions.

How much of that is the Church and how much is Fox playing games? Fox isn't exactly a beacon of truth.

JMS


Josh, correct me if I'm wrong, but a few years ago, weren't you an ardent supporter of Bill O'Reilly and Fox news?
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_silentkid
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Post by _silentkid »

Mister Scratch wrote:Yeah, you know, this whole shebang is just unspeakably bad. What an embarrassment. The lazy repetitions of answers, the distortion, everything. Who ever penned these answers ought to be disfellowshipped. In any case, this was my fave:

Q: Does the Mormon Church believe that women can only gain access to heaven with a special pass or codewords?

A: No.


Lol....


I can envision the PR department coming up with this answer..."You know, they didn't specify what level of heaven. We'll just assume they meant the telestial kingdom."
_SatanWasSetUp
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Post by _SatanWasSetUp »

Why doesn't the media just search through LDS.org. They would get better, more accurate, answers.
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_jskains
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Re: This is why critics are so relentless...

Post by _jskains »

Gadianton wrote:
jskains wrote:I went to the site and there is a bit of deception.

First Fox claimed the Church didn't want to answer the questions. Then notice there is a lot of repeats to the questions.

How much of that is the Church and how much is Fox playing games? Fox isn't exactly a beacon of truth.

JMS


Josh, correct me if I'm wrong, but a few years ago, weren't you an ardent supporter of Bill O'Reilly and Fox news?


Not that I remember.. I really don't watch enough TV to care... Unless House M.D. is on.... I love that show.

JMS
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_Trevor
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Post by _Trevor »

I am inclined to sympathize with the LDS Church on this one.

First of all, some of these questions are plain stupid.

Let's start with the first one:

Q: Why do some call the Church a cult?


In my opinion, the intention of opening with this question is to press the association of the LDS Church with the word cult. The word cult is so loaded, that use of it in this context is similar to saying, in a political context, "we hear that your political party has been compared with the Nazis, why is that?"

I have to agree with the Church's statement that:

"Many of these questions are typically found on anti-Mormon blogs or Web sites which aim to misrepresent or distort Mormon doctrines," the Church said in a statement. "Several of these questions do not represent ... any serious attempt to depict the core values and beliefs of its members."


The difficulty the LDS Church faces is that its doctrines and practices are both unfamiliar and unusual. To correct the assumptions behind some of the questions posed here, like the ones about passwords, the 'planet' Kolob, and so forth, would require detailed responses that people would probably not read, or, if they did read it, not respond favorably to. It is not that the beliefs themselves are always more odious or bizarre than what a standard Catholic might believe, but their distinctive nature makes them seem especially dubious and risible.

In one case, namely the question about deification, the answer provided is designed to quell the fears that actually do inform the question. Many of your garden variety Christians, when they hear about LDS theosis, are immediately concerned about what this says about Mormons' regard for God and the assumed superiority of God in relationship to man. This fear is scripturally based. As we know from 2 Thessalonians, prophecy warns of a Man of Perdition who will make himself equal to God. I can totally see a Christian misconstruing LDS doctrine in this way, and in fact I have seen it on more than one occasion. I think it is entirely appropriate for the LDS Church to choose to address this kind of subtext based on its experience responding to such questions. I see it as far less disingenuous than Hinckley's "I don't know that we teach that."

In short, I find some of the questions stupid, and the answers, while sometimes not handled optimally, are about what you would expect given the quality of some of the questions. It is a perfect storm of poor journalism meeting mediocre PR.
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_Gazelam
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Post by _Gazelam »

As odd as it seems, the Church answered these questions exactly as they should have.

When Jesus instructed Peter, James, and John to tell no man of what they had seen on the Mount of Transfiguration, he was witholding sacred things from the uninitiated, when on the other hand he parried tricky questions of the Pharisees by asking them counter questions and then telling them that if they could not answer him he would not answer them, he was simply evading them. In the Clementine Recognitions, when Peter refuses to tell Clement about salvation for the dead until Clement himself received certain ordinances, he is witholding secret teachings, but when he refuses to discuss the nature of the Godhead with Simon Magus, he explains that he is deliberately evading the man because he has no real desire to learn about the Godhead and only wants to cause trouble.

People are to be given knowledge as they are able to receive it, so that the mysteries of the kingdom are imparted by degrees. There are intended to be safeguards in the teaching of the gospel to protect sacred things from common misunderstanding and to protect the unworthy from damaging themselves with them. Things are to be taught in order and by degrees.

The earliest Christian Apocrypha, especially those dealing with the Lord's teachings after the resurrection, are represented as extremely secret, but always with the understanding that they are to be given without hesitation to those who really want them. Thus in an early text Peter explains his policy in dealing with Simon Magus, who wants to discuss the mysteries with him: "it is important to have some knowledge of the man... if he remains wrapped up and polluted in obvious sins, it is not proper for me to speak to him at all of the more secret and sacred things of divine knowledge, but rather to protest and confront him, that he cease from sin, and cleanse his actions from vice. But if he insinuates himself, and leads us on to speak what he, as long as he acts improperly, ought not to hear, it will be our part to parry him cautiously."

Simon is to be taught nothing until he has learned repentance. This, it will be recalled, was the policy of John the Baptist in dealing with the men who came out from the schools to heckle him and of Jesus when the schoolmen laid clever traps for him. Accordingly, when Simon Magus insists on discussing the mysteries of the godhead, Peter remarks, "You seem to me not to know what a father and a God is: but I could tell you both whence souls are, and when and how they were made; only it is not permited to me now to disclose those things to you." Peter explains that because of the wickednes of men, "God has concealed his mind from men," and that the Christians are under obligation "to honor with silence the very highest teachings." Even when the sincere investigator Clement asks Peter about the fate of his parents who never heard the gospel, Peter remarks, "Now Clement, you are forcing me to discuss things we are not allowed to talk about," with the understanding that "with the passing of time the more secret things will be disclosed to you." When Clement later vectures a bit of learned speculation about the annointing of Adam to be a high priest, Peter becomes angry and rebukes him "for thinking we can everything before the proper time."
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
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