This is why critics are so relentless...

[_Trevor]

As odd as it seems, the Church answered these questions exactly as they should have.

And then follows, "yaddy-yaddy-yaw."

[_truth dancer]

Hi Gaz....

People are to be given knowledge as they are able to receive it, so that the mysteries of the kingdom are imparted by degrees. There are intended to be safeguards in the teaching of the gospel to protect sacred things from common misunderstanding and to protect the unworthy from damaging themselves with them. Things are to be taught in order and by degrees.

No offense but this excuse really seems just a justification for not being honest.

More importantly, I'm afraid those days of secret doctrines are over.

We do not live in a world where LDS doctrine can be hidden from the "gentiles" or non-believers, or even members who aren't quite wonderful or righteous enough to learn of it, or understand it. (Even Joseph Smith's polygamy and polyandry were discovered ... lies and deception notwithstanding).

Those days are long gone.

I think the LDS church would do itself a favor if it were honest. No one has to go into detail about every specific thing, but somewhere along the line, I think the LDS church has to deal with the issues, decide what it actually teaches, what is or is not doctrine, and stop pretending we live in the Dark Ages.

I do understand the difficult position in which the church finds intself. I wonder if the leaders are not trying to figure out what is or is not true themselves.

It is a tough situation I suppose.

:-)

~dancer~

[_Roger Morrison]

Tis said, "Give them enough rope and they'll strangle/tangle/hang themselves." Take yer pick. All to the benefit of truth revealed... Roger

[_Brackite]

From that Article:

Q: Can someone who may never marry in life have eternal marriage?

A: God will not withhold blessings from any of his children who may not have the opportunity to marry in this life.

This is Not true for adult single males within the LDS Church. While this is likely true for adult females within the Church, this is Not true for adult single males within the LDS Church. The Following is from a Speech that the Former 13th LDS Church President Ezra Taft Benson gave in Priesthood Session, back in April of 1988:

Remember the counsel of Elder Bruce R. McConkie that “the most important single thing that any Latter-day Saint ever does in this world is to marry the right person in the right place by the right authority” (Choose an Eternal Companion, Brigham Young University Speeches of the Year, Provo, 3 May 1966, p. 2).

Understand that temple marriage is essential to your salvation and exaltation.

...

My dear single adult brethren, we are also concerned. We want you to know that the position of the Church has never changed regarding the importance of celestial marriage. It is a commandment of God. The Lord’s declaration in Genesis is still true: “And the Lord God said, It is not good that the man should be alone” (Gen. 2:18).

To obtain a fulness of glory and exaltation in the celestial kingdom, one must enter into this holiest of ordinances.

Without marriage, the purposes of the Lord would be frustrated. Choice spirits would be withheld from the experience of mortality. And postponing marriage unduly often means limiting your posterity, and the time will come, brethren, when you will feel and know that loss.

I can assure you that the greatest responsibility and the greatest joys in life are centered in the family, honorable marriage, and rearing a righteous posterity. And the older you become, the less likely you are to marry, and then you may lose these eternal blessings altogether.

President Spencer W. Kimball recounted an experience he once had:

“Recently I met a young returned missionary who is 35 years old. He had been home from his mission for 14 years and yet he was little concerned about his bachelorhood, and laughed about it.

“I shall feel sorry for this young man when the day comes that he faces the Great Judge at the throne and when the Lord asks this boy: ‘Where is your wife?’ All of his excuses which he gave to his fellows on earth will seem very light and senseless when he answers the Judge. ‘I was very busy,’ or ‘I felt I should get my education first,’ or ‘I did not find the right girl’—such answers will be hollow and of little avail. He knew he was commanded to find a wife and marry her and make her happy. He knew it was his duty to become the father of children and provide a rich, full life for them as they grew up. He knew all this, yet postponed his responsibility” (Ensign, Feb. 1975, p. 2).

I realize that some of you brethren may have genuine fears regarding the real responsibilities that will be yours if you do marry. You are concerned about being able to support a wife and family and provide them with the necessities in these uncertain economic times. Those fears must be replaced with faith.

I assure you, brethren, that if you will be industrious, faithfully pay your tithes and offerings, and conscientiously keep the commandments, the Lord will sustain you. Yes, there will be sacrifices required, but you will grow from these and will be a better man for having met them.

Work hard educationally and in your vocation. Put your trust in the Lord, have faith, and it will work out. The Lord never gives a commandment without providing the means to accomplish it (see 1 Ne. 3:7).

Also, do not be caught up in materialism, one of the real plagues of our generation—that is, acquiring things, fast-paced living, and securing career success in the single state.

Honorable marriage is more important than wealth, position, and status. As husband and wife, you can achieve your life’s goals together. As you sacrifice for each other and your children, the Lord will bless you, and your commitment to the Lord and your service in His kingdom will be enhanced.

Now, brethren, do not expect perfection in your choice of a mate. Do not be so particular that you overlook her most important qualities of having a strong testimony, living the principles of the gospel, loving home, wanting to be a mother in Zion, and supporting you in your priesthood responsibilities.


( Ezra Taft Benson, “To the Single Adult Brethren of the Church,” Ensign, May 1988, Pages 51-52: Link. Bold Emphasis Mine. )

[_Gazelam]

Thanks for posting that Brack, great stuff. [Did you get all that Nehor? : ) ]

And Dancer:

I think the LDS church has to deal with the issues, decide what it actually teaches, what is or is not doctrine,

Here ya go:



$24.95 at Deseret Book.

[_Gazelam]

As odd as it seems, the Church answered these questions exactly as they should have.

And then follows, "yaddy-yaddy-yaw."

I didn't even finish. my wife needed on the computer and I had to stop early.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Gaz...

Mormon Doctrine?

You are kidding right?

;-)

Most apologists I have encountered put BRM in the "ridiculous, he doesn't know what he is talking about, opinion" catagory.

I'm pretty sure the church and most informed members want to distance themselves as much as possible from Bruce R., and Mormon Doctrine.

~dancer~

[_Trevor]

I didn't even finish. my wife needed on the computer and I had to stop early.

Please buy her something nice for me.

[_Roger Morrison]

Thanks for posting that Brack, great stuff. [Did you get all that Nehor? : ) ]

And Dancer:

I think the LDS church has to deal with the issues, decide what it actually teaches, what is or is not doctrine,

Gaz, I too thank Brackie for his post. But, i think for different reasons than you do?? If i'm reading you correctly, you endorse & agree with the statements of Benson & Kimball...

I'm not certain how Brackie presented his quotes? Simply as a "reporter" or an endorser? I expected as a "reporter"? Now Gaz has me wondering. What say yee Brackie?

Regardless, I see them as absurdities. They are IMSCO, made in ignorance, and in total disregard of human biological, emotional and dispositional tendencies. If one is not heterosexual, to expect, intimidate, coerce that person to violate their human centre to appease a misguided religious fanatic is a crime against humanity.

In addition, there seems no thought given to individuals who are born sexually impotent, male and female. Are they to go through life haunted by the facts of their "God" given disposition to be not acceptable to "God"? Incredible!!

But again, we had a Prophet who said, "the moon will turn to blood before Black men will have the Priesthood." And another Prophet who described those who inhabit the moon. Shouldn't be too surpised i guess. But it is disappointing to witness such nonsense dispensed today to the innocent, by real live demigods. There aught to be a law against such edicting and/or solicitation.

Makes me want to become an active-anti-Mormon-activist, rather than one know as an inactive-Mormon. Gotta think about that... Roger

[_cksalmon]

When Jesus instructed Peter, James, and John to tell no man of what they had seen on the Mount of Transfiguration, he was witholding sacred things from the uninitiated,

One must read your conclusion into the text.

The passage reads (in KJV):

And as they came down from the mountain, Jesus charged them, saying, Tell the vision to no man, until the Son of man be risen again from the dead.

There is no mention nor, to my mind, any implication of "withholding sacred things from the uninitiated."

Jesus is not quoted as saying, "Don't tell these things to the uninitiated," but rather, "Don't tell these things until after my resurrection."

The two are not isomorphic.

CKS