skippy the dead wrote:Where is it being discussed (please don't make me read all the threads there - I'm ever so slightly hung over today and that wouldn't help at all).
It's on a thread about the date of section 132.
Thanks!
That is a pretty funny paragraph. And quite Swiftian.
I may be going to hell in a bucket, babe / But at least I'm enjoying the ride.
-Grateful Dead (lyrics by John Perry Barlow)
Joseph Smith: "Well, I did steal your wife, but you can trust me not to lift your wallet. Now, about that donation to build an inn where I can sell liquor to travelers..."
“I was hooked from the start,” Snoop Dogg said. “We talked about the purpose of life, played Mousetrap, and ate brownies. The kids thought it was off the hook, for real.”
Gadianton wrote:That's almost as bad as the pre Maxwell institute paper I got.
I, too, was immediately reminded of the excerpt you posted earlier, Gad.
"Finally, for your rather strange idea that miracles are somehow linked to the amount of gay sexual gratification that is taking place would require that primitive Christianity was launched by gay sex, would it not?"
Runtu wrote:Thanks to mms for pointing this out. The following is from a discussion of the morality of polygamy and Joseph's denial of practicing it.
Like obedience to civil law, honesty and integrity are foundational values to the Church of Jesus Christ. Indeed, the success which critics have in troubling members of the Church with tales of polygamy and its deceptive circumstances is, in a way, a compliment to the Church. If the Church as an institution typically taught its members to have a casual disregard for the truth, a discovery that Joseph Smith had deceived others about polygamy would not be troubling to most. But, because the Church (contrary to the suggestions of some critics) really does teach its members to aspire to live elevated lives of moral rectitude, the discovery that deception was involved with polygamy can come as something of a shock. Disillusionment can ensue if we follow the critics in assuming that because Joseph occasionally misled others in this specific context, he must therefore have lied about everything else, and been absolutely unworthy of trust.
But, as we have seen, the practice of polygamy must be viewed in its moral context as an act of religious devotion which the Saints were unwilling to forego simply because the state or society disapproved.
As I said on the other board, this is beyond parody.
I am not personally acquainted with any church that teaches that lying and deception are ok.
This has GOT TO BE one of the dumbest arguments about anything I've ever had the misfortune to hear. How did someone with such low brain wattage get an MD?
God . . . "who mouths morals to other people and has none himself; who frowns upon crimes, yet commits them all; who created man without invitation, . . . and finally, with altogether divine obtuseness, invites this poor, abused slave to worship him ..."
Bob McCue has made the argument that all that we really have to figure out is whether Joseph Smith was trustworthy or not. As this shows, the answer is "not".
The FAIRLDS author actually has the audacity to insult our intelligence by saying, essentially, "Joseph Smith occasionally lied about some things, but that doesn't mean he can't be trusted not to have lied about other things."
They seem to countenance this lying by explaining that it was in the context of an act of religious devotion. If your motives were religious, then anything goes, I suppose.
Mormonism ceased being a compelling topic for me when I finally came to terms with its transformation from a personality cult into a combination of a real estate company, a SuperPac, and Westboro Baptist Church. - Kishkumen
guy sajer wrote:This has GOT TO BE one of the dumbest arguments about anything I've ever had the misfortune to hear. How did someone with such low brain wattage get an MD?
MD stands for Mondo Dismal
“I was hooked from the start,” Snoop Dogg said. “We talked about the purpose of life, played Mousetrap, and ate brownies. The kids thought it was off the hook, for real.”
Sethbag wrote:Bob McCue has made the argument that all that we really have to figure out is whether Joseph Smith was trustworthy or not. As this shows, the answer is "not".
The FAIRLDS author actually has the audacity to insult our intelligence by saying, essentially, "Joseph Smith occasionally lied about some things, but that doesn't mean he can't be trusted not to have lied about other things."
They seem to countenance this lying by explaining that it was in the context of an act of religious devotion. If your motives were religious, then anything goes, I suppose.
I agree: the whole thing is about credibility. When you examine Joseph Smith and what how he chased the ladies, add in the Kirtland scandal, leading raids in missouri, and all the crazy things that happened in Nauvoo - you come to the point where you can't defend him anymore.
guy sajer wrote: ...This has GOT TO BE one of the dumbest arguments about anything I've ever had the misfortune to hear. How did someone with such low brain wattage get an MD?
As a doc, I've been around TBM docs, exmo docs and nevermo docs. I've concluded there is a vail in tbm brains that separate their brains between religious thought and normal reason and logic. It amazes me that they can be so brilliant and talented in their scientific profession, then in the same breath say "yes, I know Joseph had a vision...."
Having read the entire publication, and being the one who posted a link to it at MA&D, and finding that overall it contains some useful information… I must need to up the “wattage” of my brain as well.
"Some people never go crazy. What truly horrible lives they must lead." ~Charles Bukowski
I realized just over a year or so ago that to many believers (Mormon and non-Mormon alike) there is a blurring of ethical behavior when it crosses over into the religious. The belief that unethical behavior is "okay", if not outright commendable when "endorsed by God" is responsible for the 9/11 hijackings, thousands of women burned at the stake, the Holy Inquisition and yes, polygamy too.
Thou shalt not kill - unless I say so.
Thou shalt not commit adultery - unless I say so.
And so forth. There are apparently no hard and fast moral rules in this world that cannot be undone when you throw the will of God in there.
In my own family I've seen example of this. My temple married brother left his wife for a co-worker. Of course everyone was really upset about it. My brother endorsed his behavior with his new wife's patriarchal blessing which said she would have many trials but would eventually find a good husband when the time was right (have I mentioned she was also married at the time.) God confirmed to him by prayer that he should leave wife #1 for wife #2.
So explain to me why my Mormon family is so upset. Aren't all those things okay when God commands it? And I'm the lone person that calls BS in my family on Joseph Smith for the same thing.
Insert ironic quote from fellow board member here.