Presence of others in the Book of Mormon is a no-brainer?

[_The Nehor]

Watching a doc on the History channell, I learnt that a lot of Indians died from diseases in the San Francisco area from contact with whites who came and settled, especially during the gold rush.. Why would not the same had happened with the group of Nephi and Lehi?

It might have but the diseases they had in Palestine versus Europe about 2500 years apart would be pretty different. If I were to go back in time 2500 years I might cause a massive plague.

[_The Nehor]

It's a no brainer that it's LGT? Most members don't even know about the debate and most assume a hemispheric model. Most spend their time in the Book of Mormon trying to grow closer to God and find salvation too and consider most of the rest irrelevant.

I think this is true. The problem comes about when the book is claimed to be accurate history. I could get "closer to God" by studying Cinderella. The story inspires good feelings and what many might call "spirituality." I can do this without the book claiming to be literal history...as I believe most readers of the Book of Mormon do.

It's when the evidence strongly indicates the book was authored by Joseph Smith, and has fictional stories, but most Mormons profess it to be history that we have a problem.

The Book of Mormon is not really a history. While I believe the events therein actually happened with a few exception areas the Book of Mormon leaves out a lot of information critical to a history. Many of the leader's names are left out. Wars are summarized. With the exception of one related neighbor (Lamanites) and a kingdom they discovered with close ties to them (Mulekites) there is no mention of foreign relations. While some of their laws are mentioned it is very incomplete. Then in several parts of the narrative we get long discourses and lots of details focussed on certain events events (Alma teaching sons, Nephi's arrest for the murder of the Chief Judge, etc.).

[_silentkid]

I believe in the LGT and Two Cumorah Theory. I think that there was one of those vacuum tubes (you know, the kind that you find at bank drive-thrus) in the original hill Cumorah that connected to the New York hill Cumorah through which the golden plates, urim and thummim, and Sword of Laban were transferred.

[_BishopRic]

It's a no brainer that it's LGT? Most members don't even know about the debate and most assume a hemispheric model. Most spend their time in the Book of Mormon trying to grow closer to God and find salvation too and consider most of the rest irrelevant.

I think this is true. The problem comes about when the book is claimed to be accurate history. I could get "closer to God" by studying Cinderella. The story inspires good feelings and what many might call "spirituality." I can do this without the book claiming to be literal history...as I believe most readers of the Book of Mormon do.

It's when the evidence strongly indicates the book was authored by Joseph Smith, and has fictional stories, but most Mormons profess it to be history that we have a problem.

The Book of Mormon is not really a history.

Agreed.

While I believe the events therein actually happened with a few exception areas the Book of Mormon leaves out a lot of information critical to a history. Many of the leader's names are left out. Wars are summarized. With the exception of one related neighbor (Lamanites) and a kingdom they discovered with close ties to them (Mulekites) there is no mention of foreign relations. While some of their laws are mentioned it is very incomplete. Then in several parts of the narrative we get long discourses and lots of details focussed on certain events events (Alma teaching sons, Nephi's arrest for the murder of the Chief Judge, etc

It is a story, as is Cinderella. One can be inspired by reading either one. The "events" happened in the authors' imagination.

[_BishopRic]

I believe in the LGT and Two Cumorah Theory. I think that there was one of those vacuum tubes (you know, the kind that you find at bank drive-thrus) in the original hill Cumorah that connected to the New York hill Cumorah through which the golden plates, urim and thummim, and Sword of Laban were transferred.

I'll buy that...oh, and God changed all the Lamanites' DNA to fool us too!

[_The Nehor]

It is a story, as is Cinderella. One can be inspired by reading either one. The "events" happened in the authors' imagination.

I disagree with that assessment about the Book of Mormon; the Spirit hasn't told me whether Cinderella is a true story or not yet.

[_BishopRic]

It is a story, as is Cinderella. One can be inspired by reading either one. The "events" happened in the authors' imagination.

I disagree with that assessment about the Book of Mormon; the Spirit hasn't told me whether Cinderella is a true story or not yet.

It has me, and it is as "true" as the Book of Mormon.

[_Blixa]

The Book of Mormon is not really a history.

While it certainy is not a history, the question is whether or not it is a historical document (from the era claimed).

[_SatanWasSetUp]

I think the apologists are moving in the right direction - away from Joseph Smith. Not long ago it was hard to find anyone in the church who could admit that Joseph wasn't perfect, or at least second in perfection to Jesus. The stuff that Joseph taught was obviously true, it was as if Christ was speaking. The apologists have done a good job of steering the church to accept that Joseph was "just a man," and even someone who taught things that were wrong, and not unimportant things, Mormon specific stuff like who the Lamanites are and the impact of the Book of Mormon narrative on this hemisphere. This is a big deal when you think about it. Critics have always maintained that Joseph was wrong about a lot of stuff, and now we have apologists admitting that that is true. Critics have always believed Joseph was just a man, and apologists do too. The apologists, in a weird way, are actually bringing sanity to the church. As more and more evidence of ancient America comes in, I see the apologists steering the church to some kind of "inspired fiction" doctrine for the Book of Mormon. Heck, maybe in 100 years the church will no longer have a book of scripture called the Book of Mormon, and any mention of it will be an anti-mormon lie.

[_Gazelam]

Words of Mormon 1:3-6

3 And now, I speak somewhat concerning that which I have written; for after I had made an abridgment from the plates of Nephi, down to the reign of this king Benjamin, of whom Amaleki spake, I searched among the records which had been delivered into my hands, and I found these plates, which contained this small account of the prophets, from Jacob down to the reign of this king Benjamin, and also many of the words of Nephi.
4 And the things which are upon these plates pleasing me, because of the prophecies of the coming of Christ; and my fathers knowing that many of them have been fulfilled; yea, and I also know that as many things as have been prophesied concerning us down to this day have been fulfilled, and as many as go beyond this day must surely come to pass—
5 Wherefore, I chose these things, to finish my record upon them, which remainder of my record I shall take from the plates of Nephi; and I cannot write the hundredth part of the things of my people.
6 But behold, I shall take these plates, which contain these prophesyings and revelations, and put them with the remainder of my record, for they are choice unto me; and I know they will be choice unto my brethren.