A Public Apology

[_Jersey Girl]

Ok, tell us how to recreate your tests.

Sure, but you won't enjoy MY test, I'm afraid.

First, you have to really screw up something in your life.

Second, you have to be really desperate and completely humiliated.

Third, you have to turn to God in complete sincerity and humility and ask Him if he is there and if he hears you.


Assumptions:

God-being a free-willed being and knowing you much better than I do-will decide to answer you. I think he will because of the all-important ingredient of humility and sincerity. Humility, true humility, is much harder to come by than you might think. PM me, and I'll tell you how to really screw up your life and have a good chance of obtaining this type of humility. It wears off after a while, by the way.

So the folks dying of starvation and disease in 3rd world countries, AIDS patients, etc. aren't humbled enough?

You're using Straw-man argument which I don't really see as relevent to what I'm saying. Many of the people in those countries have strong faith. Perhaps that explains the growth of Christianity and Islam in places such as Africa and South America. I don't know. I never claimed to know those answers. Sorry.

I'm doing what? Using a straw man argument? How did I do that?

[_mledbetter]

Ok, tell us how to recreate your tests.

Sure, but you won't enjoy MY test, I'm afraid.

First, you have to really screw up something in your life.

Second, you have to be really desperate and completely humiliated.

Third, you have to turn to God in complete sincerity and humility and ask Him if he is there and if he hears you.


Assumptions:

God-being a free-willed being and knowing you much better than I do-will decide to answer you. I think he will because of the all-important ingredient of humility and sincerity. Humility, true humility, is much harder to come by than you might think. PM me, and I'll tell you how to really screw up your life and have a good chance of obtaining this type of humility. It wears off after a while, by the way.

So the folks dying of starvation and disease in 3rd world countries, AIDS patients, etc. aren't humbled enough?

You're using Straw-man argument which I don't really see as relevent to what I'm saying. Many of the people in those countries have strong faith. Perhaps that explains the growth of Christianity and Islam in places such as Africa and South America. I don't know. I never claimed to know those answers. Sorry.

I'm doing what? Using a straw man argument? How did I do that?

"A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[1] To "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw man argument" is to create a position that is easy to refute, then attribute that position to the opponent."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Of course I can't refute that people in 3rd world countries aren't humble enough, but that wasn't my point to begin with.

:-)

I have to go heat up a rice sock for my wife. She's 8 and 1/2 month pregnant and ready to pop and she suffering from a terrible cold. Then I think I'll watch a movie. Eastern Promises looks good.

-Matt

[_Gadianton]

If you don't believe in God and spend your remaining days of your puny mortality on this puny earth rebelling against Him, then you are a fool. Don't be so narcissistic as to think you have everything figured out when it comes to the existence of God.

Well, what do you consider rebelling? I have to do a lot of general things in life that are neutral towards any God.

Code: Select all

For all of the accusations I hear about DCP-from this board-about his postings on MAD so that he can merely puff up his ego with the applause of the so-called sycophants, I see no better proof of that type of behavior than right here in this thread

.

I've never criticized DCP for his ego per se. I admire a guy who's basically made it clear that he thinks bulletin boards are a joke, beneath his notice on an intellectual level, and only good for his personal entertainment where he can make light of lesser minds --- and then have a crowd of moderators all of whom he's basically insulted groveling at his feet to make his stay comfortable.

Before you condescend to your fellow mortals and amuse yourself by pointing out their supposed gullibility and ignorance, remember this. You are nothing. You are a speck of nothing on a speck of a planet circling a speck of a star circling in a speck of a galaxy drifting in a universe of countless galaxies and uncountable light years of space and nothingness/somethingness. Don’t be so arrogant.

I agree, but I'm not arguing or challenging galaxies, I'm boasting in front of other specks of dust.

I enjoy your posts here and on MAD however.

Thanks. But on MAD, just so we're clear, the "gadianton" is not me, it's someone else.

Oh, and as far as the visiting you in the lower kingdom thing. We'll probably be in the same one, so I hope to get to know you better and become good friends.

Why would you be in a low kingdom if you repent?

[_mledbetter]

I agree, but I'm not arguing or challenging galaxies, I'm boasting in front of other specks of dust.

Well, I suppose if this Supreme Being we call God created all these specks and he thinks they are important to Him for their potential, then boasting to them that they aren't important and that their existance is meaningless might make Him angry. I wouldn't want to do that knowing what I know, I guess.

Thanks. But on MAD, just so we're clear, the "gadianton" is not me, it's someone else.

Thanks. I didn't know that. I'm still new on both forums.

by the way, DCP seems like a nice feller, so don't be so hard on him. I haven't seen anything out of him that would suggest he is as you say he is.

Why would you be in a low kingdom if you repent?

I've always been more comfortable there.

[_truth dancer]

I wrote: I for one do not think it is possible, as a very young species here on one little planet only half way through the life of our universe, to comprehend what is the reality of the universe, let alone its intricate workings. :-) So, my experience suggests whatever it is of which we are a part is about a billion, trillion, gazillion times (smile), beyond what we could possibly comprehend with our very limited few abilities.

Folks have been claiming all sorts of truth for millennia... seems lots of folks think they know all sorts of things! ;-)

We can know some things about Him. It's up to God.

Yes, I have heard it before... God chooses those special folks....and all that! :-)

The problem is, we have a world filled with folks who all come up with something different. Just makes me wonder who are those really special folks who get the real scoop! (smile)

We like to get mad when we pray to Him and in those prayers we are willing Him to speak to us and He doesn't.

Who is, "we?"

Personally don't know anyone who falls in this catagory...

Like I said, true humility is harder to come by than you might think.

Ohhh so are you saying only the truly humble get to experience God? So, if someone doesn't experience God as you have, they are not humble?

I wrote:

At minimum it suggests God is a male, and I'm assuming you mean human type?

LB:

I hope He is. Have you ever had a woman boss?

Yes, I've had fabulous wonderful women bosses.

Why do you "hope" God is a man? You write as if you know. Personally, the God in the Bible doesn't seem like all that nice of a guy. I mean seriously, what kind of nice father commands a victim of rape marry the rapist? What kind of nice guy commands a woman be part of a harem? What kind of nice gentleman comes up with a plan where women are owned, traded, possessed, and denigrated?

So back to my point... why do you think folks the world over experience God so differently? Do you think your experience is more true, more real, more right, more accurate than the millions of others whose experience of God contradicts yours?

:-)

~dancer~

[_Gadianton]

Well, I suppose if this Supreme Being we call God created all these specks and he thinks they are important to Him for their potential, then boasting to them that they aren't important and that their existance is meaningless might make Him angry. I wouldn't want to do that knowing what I know, I guess.

Did I boast that anyone wasn't important? I believe it is you who painted me as a "speck of dust". I only boasted that Mormons aren't going to get their big Celestial lolly pop for self-denial in this life. And why would I care if God gets angry? Bad things in this life happen to good people as often as they happen to bad people. Plenty of bad people have great lives. Further, why would the supreme being of the universe take anything personal from a speck of dust? And finally, even if his anger is only exacted in the next life, what does it matter? Whether I blasphemed God or politely disagreed with his followers, I'm going to hell equally. "For by the Law, no flesh is justified."

by the way, DCP seems like a nice feller, so don't be so hard on him. I haven't seen anything out of him that would suggest he is as you say he is.

I don't have anything personally against the guy. But were you posting on ZLMB many years ago when he admitted that the boards were only for his amusement, and not serious discussion?

I've always been more comfortable there.

Are you implying you are there currently?

[_Jersey Girl]

Ok, tell us how to recreate your tests.

Sure, but you won't enjoy MY test, I'm afraid.

First, you have to really screw up something in your life.

Second, you have to be really desperate and completely humiliated.

Third, you have to turn to God in complete sincerity and humility and ask Him if he is there and if he hears you.


Assumptions:

God-being a free-willed being and knowing you much better than I do-will decide to answer you. I think he will because of the all-important ingredient of humility and sincerity. Humility, true humility, is much harder to come by than you might think. PM me, and I'll tell you how to really screw up your life and have a good chance of obtaining this type of humility. It wears off after a while, by the way.

So the folks dying of starvation and disease in 3rd world countries, AIDS patients, etc. aren't humbled enough?

You're using Straw-man argument which I don't really see as relevent to what I'm saying. Many of the people in those countries have strong faith. Perhaps that explains the growth of Christianity and Islam in places such as Africa and South America. I don't know. I never claimed to know those answers. Sorry.

I'm doing what? Using a straw man argument? How did I do that?

"A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[1] To "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw man argument" is to create a position that is easy to refute, then attribute that position to the opponent."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Of course I can't refute that people in 3rd world countries aren't humble enough, but that wasn't my point to begin with.

:-)

I have to go heat up a rice sock for my wife. She's 8 and 1/2 month pregnant and ready to pop and she suffering from a terrible cold. Then I think I'll watch a movie. Eastern Promises looks good.

-Matt

Um, I think I know what a straw man argument is (thanks for the def though) and I did nothing of the kind. I bolded portions of your comments where you assert that humility and sincerity are a main vehicle to God. I asked you a question based on your assertions. When I decide to put up an "argument" I think you'll know it. If, as you assert, humility and sincerity truly are main vehicles to God then, your test is invalid unless it can be applied to others. That was the main point of my question.

[_mledbetter]

Why do you "hope" God is a man? You write as if you know. Personally, the God in the Bible doesn't seem like all that nice of a guy. I mean seriously, what kind of nice father commands a victim of rape marry the rapist? What kind of nice guy commands a woman be part of a harem? What kind of nice gentleman comes up with a plan where women are owned, traded, possessed, and denigrated?

First of all, you'll have to get used to the fact that I'm a smartass, and was being one.
Second, I don't think God came up with such ideas about women, as you suggest.
Third, I know it's the sexy thing in our world today to agree with the notion of I am woman, hear me roar. but I really don't think God is all wrapped up in worrying about that. I really don't care what gender He is. I just hope and believe He is there.

So back to my point... why do you think folks the world over experience God so differently? Do you think your experience is more true, more real, more right, more accurate than the millions of others whose experience of God contradicts yours?

Prove to me that their views and experiences have contradicted mine. I never said exactly what my experience was. I only know that there is a God, and I will add I felt love. That seems to fall into about the same experience I know of others who have felt close to Him. That's all I've said and you seem to be reading much more into what I've said, then I would have imagined. Is this board always this way? It seems like we look for arguments where there are none.

[_mledbetter]

Did I boast that anyone wasn't important?

Yes, when you used the Holiday season as an opportunity to minimize and deride the faith of others by claiming they will die and that will be the end of them and their silly religious ideals.

I believe it is you who painted me as a "speck of dust".

Yes, but a speck with potential.

I only boasted that Mormons aren't going to get their big Celestial lolly pop for self-denial in this life. And why would I care if God gets angry? Bad things in this life happen to good people as often as they happen to bad people. Plenty of bad people have great lives.

This is a whole other thread.

Further, why would the supreme being of the universe take anything personal from a speck of dust? And finally, even if his anger is only exacted in the next life, what does it matter? Whether I blasphemed God or politely disagreed with his followers, I'm going to hell equally. "For by the Law, no flesh is justified."

In for a penny, in for a pound, I see.

Are you implying you are there currently?

In Law, yes. We all know how hard it is to be a Mormon. Some of us haven't completely given up, however.

[_mledbetter]

Um, I think I know what a straw man argument is (thanks for the def though) and I did nothing of the kind. I bolded portions of your comments where you assert that humility and sincerity are a main vehicle to God. I asked you a question based on your assertions. When I decide to put up an "argument" I think you'll know it. If, as you assert, humility and sincerity truly are main vehicles to God then, your test is invalid unless it can be applied to others. That was the main point of my question.

Wow, don't be so sensative. It really seemed to me that you didn't know that you had placed what seemed to me to be a straw-man argument. I thought that because your question really seemed to come off as more rhetorical than wanting a serious reply. My bad.

Then I'll say I agree with you. People in third world countries seem to have quite a bit of humility, which may explain the strong growth of Christianity and Islam and other religions. I served my mission in Yugoslavia, and there were many refugees there from the third world. These folks always seemed far more believing in God, than the natives.

I never said that humility and sincerety were the ONLY vehicals, but I will say they were important ingredients in my case. That said, I would assume they are important ingredients in all cases.