Ray A: A Mormon 'John'?

[_karl61]

Good grief: not every that takes money for sex (prostitution) is a drug addict. Some do it just for the thrill of it. Some housewives work for an escort service because of the charge. Do I need to remind everyone about the tennis racket scandal at BYU.

[_marg]

Many homeless have to be served soft food because of the state of their dental health.

When I refer to a person as a loser in this discussion, I'm not referring to economic status, I'm referring more to stupidity, selfishness, that sort of thing.

[_harmony]

. Do I need to remind everyone about the tennis racket scandal at BYU.

I musta missed that one.

[_Ray A]

Here in Queensland Prostitution has been legalised as Brothels are allowed and controlled by a Government Authority. The business people who own them must not have any criminal connections, the girls who work there must not be addicts and must have regular checkups. Interviews by newspapers of these girls show a lot do it for the good money which allow them to buy a house, send their kids to private school etc. The women report that many of their clients are successful business men who don't want to have an affair, do not intend in leaving their families and are just having a bit of sex on the side without complications. I don't think the "losers" would be able to afford those establishments.
Some of the "successful" in our society like Rupert Murdock and Kerry Packer either dump their wives for a young woman (Murdock) or have a string of affairs with the editors of his women's magazines. (Packer). Our Prime Minister (Kevin Rudd) just yesterday without any media present served breakfast to the Canberra homeless (losers!). Some spoke to him about restoring the dental health program (for lower incomes)which the previous Gove had stopped. Many homeless have to be served soft food because of the state of their dental health.

Yes, but remember Noel, "having a bit of sex on the side" is dirty, unnatural, poor thinking, and "losers" like Australia's former richest man "never hired girls". Malcolm Fraser (another Australian prime minister) was never caught with his pants down in, of all places, America. Alan Jones never visited a public toilet in England, except of course for a piddle. Rich, successful, "clear thinking men", "don't do these sorts of things".

I recommend a book for marg, which may be OP at the moment. The Intimate Sex Lives of Famous People (it includes BY and Joseph Smith, but they are not prominent in the list). Sadly, I don't have this book any more, but I do remember that Jean Jacques Rosseau used to go around at night flashing his bum. During the day he was establishing his name as one of the greatest philosophers of his age, and of all time. Obviously, a very clear thinker. Too bad that after the sun went down he thought from the opposite end. Dirty old man.

[_karl61]

. Do I need to remind everyone about the tennis racket scandal at BYU.

I musta missed that one.

girls in the dorm put a tennis racket in their window which meant they were open for business.

[_marg]

Here's a few questions for you Ray. Why only 3 times? Why did you stop?

[_harmony]

. Do I need to remind everyone about the tennis racket scandal at BYU.

I musta missed that one.

girls in the dorm put a tennis racket in their window which meant they were open for business.

Oh. Hmmm. I guess a girl who just absent-mindedly stuck her tennis racquet on her windowsill had a few unexplained visitors then.

[_Ray A]

Here's a few questions for you Ray. Why only 3 times? Why did you stop?

Do you think I'm going to give any more information than I already have? No way marg. Not with predators like Scratch around. I'll defend myself by giving out what information I feel is necessary to do so. I'd be happy do discuss this with anyone, privately, including you, and as long as I knew I could trust that person. I am even prepared to concede a point or two you made, but not while you make such superficial judgements based on a few things I've said in the past, and which Scratch thinks is my "death knell".

What you need to grasp is that people make lifestyle choices, all the time, and often for complex personal reasons that have nothing to do with their intelligence, attractiveness, or "poor ethics". The three women I became involved with had a strong sense of morality, more so than many women I've seen in nightclubs. You will find this odd, but it's not odd to me. One of them even said she found porn "disgusting", and there were many things she refused to do, which men asked her to do. I'm not trying to portray her as a saint, but with the broad brush being used on this thread, I can only echo harmony that the whole thing is sad.

[_marg]

Here's a few questions for you Ray. Why only 3 times? Why did you stop?

Do you think I'm going to give any more information than I already have? No way marg. Not with predators like Scratch around. I'll defend myself by giving out what information I feel is necessary to do so. I'd be happy do discuss this with anyone, privately, including you, and as long as I knew I could trust that person. I am even prepared to concede a point or two you made, but not while you make such superficial judgements based on a few things I've said in the past, and which Scratch thinks is my "death knell".

What you need to grasp is that people make lifestyle choices, all the time, and often for complex personal reasons that have nothing to do with their intelligence, attractiveness, or "poor ethics". The three women I became involved with had a strong sense of morality, more so than many women I've seen in nightclubs. You will find this odd, but it's not odd to me.

Ray at no time in this discussion have I ever questioned or criticized the women's morality. It's only you I have criticized. I've said they are victims. I'm sure there are some prostitutes that enjoy their job and maybe get paid extremely well. But at the street level I don't think so..and of course those doing so to pay for their drugs are caught up in a vicious horrible circle. It's no way to live. My younger brother's wife from the Ukraine worked as an exotic dancer, my understanding is that the Russion mafia sponsored her to come here. When my brother met her in a club and learned of her story, he helped her get away from the Russian mafia who essentially were controlling her life. My parents allowed her and her girlfriend to live at their home in the basement enabling them to hide from the mafia. At no time since I've known her have I ever thought negatively about her and her work which she has now left. She's an intelligent girl who used the option of becoming an exotic dancer to escape the poverty of her home town. She has a child now with my brother, they married and is a wonderful caring thoughtful person.

One of them even said she found porn "disgusting", and there were many things she refused to do, which men asked her to do. I'm not trying to portray her as a saint, but with the broad brush being used on this thread, I can only echo harmony that the whole thing is sad.

Yes many of the women have an extremely sad pathetic life. But what's really sad is the men who don't have the brains to appreciate the sort of life they have, how the job affects them and who selfishly use them to satisfy their own sexual needs which was never a need in the first place. You didn't need them Ray. And you were like other men, part of their problem. If they couldn't work, they couldn't pay for their drugs. I understand not all prostitutes are drug addicts, but I think a fair number do end up prostituting to pay for drugs. And a good majority of them in the business are treated extremely poorly by the men in general. Many of the women are physically abused. It's not on the whole a rewarding job. Is this not something which occurred to you before hand?

[_karl61]

Many homeless have to be served soft food because of the state of their dental health.

When I refer to a person as a loser in this discussion, I'm not referring to economic status, I'm referring more to stupidity, selfishness, that sort of thing.

marg, I don't understand why you call people losers. When you see homeless people do you just say "loser". If it makes you feel superior - then what ever floats your boat. Everyone has something that makes them feel like they are not worthy to be God's presence. If you don't have one then hang on because you likely will.