The sex thread

[Guest]

Uh, I don't really know. I suppose I should get out of this thread. I have absolutely no experience with bad sexual relationships (there is NO such thing as bad sex for me, and if I'm not enjoying myself I make damn sure I take control and DO enjoy myself) -- I have experience with poor relationships, though. Aha! Is that the key? Find a frigid, prudish man and I'll have eternal bliss? ;)

No! No! No! I need to become a frigid, prudish woman and THEN I'll have eternal bliss. Cause they get all the good guys. Right? The guys I dream about, and languish over marry frigid women. That's nice. I'll work on that. For sure.

And of course, back to Gad -- you're right. Maybe finding satisfaction in life is not so easy. Oh shoot!

[_BishopRic]

Perhaps, I don't understand what you're attempting to say to me, Gad. That's the norm. I think we all may struggle with finding satisfaction in certain aspects of our life, no doubt. Yet, sex just doesn't strike me as something sooo complicated. I just don't geddit. :)

I don't usually have wild sex fantasies that can NOT be fulfilled... now, maybe I just can't relate... I think if you have a partner that is unwilling, uncompromising, and uninterested in mutual pleasure than you really shouldn't HAVE to resign yourself to that. Although, I don't necessarily think that divorce should occur over sexual matters... but quite seriously, sex IS important in a relationship. It's a moment of bonding, connectedness, chemicals release that increase intimacy, etc... It's just something that is rather important. It doesn't have to be swinging from the chandeliers, hot, kinky, passionate, wild stuff -- but it needs to occur fairly frequently ESPECIALLY if one desires it.

I laugh at this...so true! I was raised in the church and temple married for 23 years. I (and my wife) was a virgin when married. Sex WAS complicated for us (mentioned a few posts back), but our best friends at the time couldn't get out of the bedroom on their honeymoon. Certainly some get lucky, but the culture does give you at least two strikes going into marriage.

One is the masturbation limitation...one of two problems -- if you do it, you feel guilty. If you don't, you don't learn about your own sexual function. Either way, you enter this new, highly charged activity unprepared.

Then, the "must wait until marriage" rule. NOT good! Plenty of sayings..."wouldn't buy a car without test-driving it first..." all apply. This sex thing is probably the most critical area of compatibility in a successful marriage, and you're not going to know how you "fit" with each other until it's too late?! And then you're stuck with him/her for all eternity?!

God couldn't be that mean!

[_Moniker]

Perhaps, I don't understand what you're attempting to say to me, Gad. That's the norm. I think we all may struggle with finding satisfaction in certain aspects of our life, no doubt. Yet, sex just doesn't strike me as something sooo complicated. I just don't geddit. :)

I don't usually have wild sex fantasies that can NOT be fulfilled... now, maybe I just can't relate... I think if you have a partner that is unwilling, uncompromising, and uninterested in mutual pleasure than you really shouldn't HAVE to resign yourself to that. Although, I don't necessarily think that divorce should occur over sexual matters... but quite seriously, sex IS important in a relationship. It's a moment of bonding, connectedness, chemicals release that increase intimacy, etc... It's just something that is rather important. It doesn't have to be swinging from the chandeliers, hot, kinky, passionate, wild stuff -- but it needs to occur fairly frequently ESPECIALLY if one desires it.

I laugh at this...so true! I was raised in the church and temple married for 23 years. I (and my wife) was a virgin when married. Sex WAS complicated for us (mentioned a few posts back), but our best friends at the time couldn't get out of the bedroom on their honeymoon. Certainly some get lucky, but the culture does give you at least two strikes going into marriage.

One is the masturbation limitation...one of two problems -- if you do it, you feel guilty. If you don't, you don't learn about your own sexual function. Either way, you enter this new, highly charged activity unprepared.

Then, the "must wait until marriage" rule. NOT good! Plenty of sayings..."wouldn't buy a car without test-driving it first..." all apply. This sex thing is probably the most critical area of compatibility in a successful marriage, and you're not going to know how you "fit" with each other until it's too late?! And then you're stuck with him/her for all eternity?!

God couldn't be that mean!

The God that I pretend exists is not that mean! Indeed! He would rather like me. And I find He quite often in the bedroom. ;)

I think the masturbation issue is HUGE. But, that's just me. And I mean, I don't know how many times I can reiterate it.. but really, it's rather important for a woman to recognize that sex CAN be enjoyable! A young man just will NOT know what to do with her. That's just the way it is. If she has no clue, he has no clue, it's going to be a rocky road.

[_solomarineris]

sorry double posti

That wasn't really worth one post, much less two. :)
What is your point with that? I suppose it is that we take what an apostle says every time he speaks to be revelation? And that makes us a "brainwashed" cult.

Did you like his talk? it does actually make you an accomplice to bear and listen such a dummkopf talk, it is beyond moronic, beyond stupid, I can only imagine any decently educated LDS following these precepts. The best thing anybody would do is walk out in protest.
Yes an Apostle is RESPONSIBLE for the church everytime he gives a speech. I am responsible for my company not to make a FOOL of myself, not degrade & denigrate my employees.
But I guess we cannot expect such civility from an Apostle of the Lord.
He is pathetically wrong here. And if you condone this behavior you deserve to have him as your leader.

What was this guy's job description again? A disciple of Christ?
LOL, God save us.
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[_Yoda]

PS. Obviously non-LDS women wear sexy lingerie all the time. Victoria's Secret isn't exactly a small business.

What's stopping LDS wives from shopping at Victoria's Secret?

;)

*wondering if I have anything left on my Victoria's Secret card*

[_Trinity]

I've always been one to clamor that the church should stay as far away from the marriage bed as possible. The problems seems to be that they want to assert some control in this area so rather than give some beneficial tips (which I assume they feel would be too titillating and chase away the spirit) they hone in on the don't do list. If one is accustomed to looking to church leaders for every little guidance in their life and all they find is a list of don't do's, it creates, in my opinion, an underlying negative image of sex in general.

On FLAK, a member posted recent results from a BYU dating survey done this past year. I thought it was telling and may illuminate some of these issues we find in married couples.

The most important attribute in a future spouse (for both genders) is spirituality/religiosity. 91% of women, 87% of men find that very important. Open communication is at 77%/78% m/f, hard worker at 40%/68%, intelligence at 42%/43%.

-How do BYU students decide who to marry? The single most important factor for both genders: Spiritual confirmation (22% men, 29% women). Love comes in third, at 10% for each gender.

Chadwick et al, A Survey of Dating and Marriage at BYU, 46 BYU Studies 67 (2007

I suppose if I had gone into marriage with a "whats love got to do with it" approach, little attention would be paid to sex.

My experience has been varied in my communications with females in the church. I used to walk with a 60 year old woman with six children who had never experienced orgasm. She seemed resigned to the fact that it wasn't an important thing in her life. Most of the women in my age bracket 25-45 were wrapped up in the fatigue of pregnancy and child-rearing that sex was seen as a duty for many of them. On the flip side, I have three very close TBM friends who insisted on showering attention on their sex life. Interestingly enough, two of these TBM's were shotgun marriages because they got pregnant beforehand.

[_Jersey Girl]

Perhaps, I don't understand what you're attempting to say to me, Gad. That's the norm. I think we all may struggle with finding satisfaction in certain aspects of our life, no doubt. Yet, sex just doesn't strike me as something sooo complicated. I just don't geddit. :)

I don't usually have wild sex fantasies that can NOT be fulfilled... now, maybe I just can't relate... I think if you have a partner that is unwilling, uncompromising, and uninterested in mutual pleasure than you really shouldn't HAVE to resign yourself to that. Although, I don't necessarily think that divorce should occur over sexual matters... but quite seriously, sex IS important in a relationship. It's a moment of bonding, connectedness, chemicals release that increase intimacy, etc... It's just something that is rather important. It doesn't have to be swinging from the chandeliers, hot, kinky, passionate, wild stuff -- but it needs to occur fairly frequently ESPECIALLY if one desires it.

I laugh at this...so true! I was raised in the church and temple married for 23 years. I (and my wife) was a virgin when married. Sex WAS complicated for us (mentioned a few posts back), but our best friends at the time couldn't get out of the bedroom on their honeymoon. Certainly some get lucky, but the culture does give you at least two strikes going into marriage.

One is the masturbation limitation...one of two problems -- if you do it, you feel guilty. If you don't, you don't learn about your own sexual function. Either way, you enter this new, highly charged activity unprepared.

Then, the "must wait until marriage" rule. NOT good! Plenty of sayings..."wouldn't buy a car without test-driving it first..." all apply. This sex thing is probably the most critical area of compatibility in a successful marriage, and you're not going to know how you "fit" with each other until it's too late?! And then you're stuck with him/her for all eternity?!

God couldn't be that mean!

The God that I pretend exists is not that mean! Indeed! He would rather like me. And I find He quite often in the bedroom. ;)

I think the masturbation issue is HUGE. But, that's just me. And I mean, I don't know how many times I can reiterate it.. but really, it's rather important for a woman to recognize that sex CAN be enjoyable! A young man just will NOT know what to do with her. That's just the way it is. If she has no clue, he has no clue, it's going to be a rocky road.

I think the masturbation issue is huge, especially when you consider the fact that people are being put on the spot face to face in Bish interviews to account for their thoughts/behaviors by a human being in a position of authoritiy over them.

Think about it, Mon.

What might it be like to discover your own sexuality under the watchful eye of a church and it's leaders from say age 14 and on up. You're cautioned not to "self abuse" (the language is telling) and then asked behind closed doors if you are! What dynamic does this set up for a young person? You either beat yourself over the head and fess up or you lie about it. Nice choices. You're encouraged to marry rather early in life and then the church snoops into your marital bed covers and tells you "how" to conduct your intimacy. Talk about righteous dominion!

[_Moniker]

Think about it, Mon.

What might it be like to discover your own sexuality under the watchful eye of a church and it's leaders from say age 14 and on up. You're cautioned not to "self abuse" (the language is telling) and then asked behind closed doors if you are! What dynamic does this set up for a young person? You either beat yourself over the head and fess up or you lie about it. Nice choices. You're encouraged to marry rather early in life and then the church snoops into your marital bed covers and tells you "how" to conduct your intimacy. Talk about righteous dominion!

Oh, I have thought about it (see Coggies, I do think at times) and can not imagine! I mean, most teenagers I know sort of freak themselves out ANYWAY when they go "whoa" and discover "themselves" -- yanno what I mean? I mean, I did for sure and there wasn't anyone telling me NOT to and I still thought sheesh, this ain't right. :) LOL

Yah, well, I've been living under shame for a few years and it sort of warped me... Anyway, I can't imagine what growing up in the culture would do to you. It's gotta be rough. I know it is, actually...

[_huckelberry]

sex, Sex, SEX!!! This is a Topic to fragment all Topics... MY wife says, and SHE knows, that women in LDSism, quite likely fair better in bed than do a lot, if not the majority, of nonLDS.

Reasons being, their husbands are never drunk, don't puke in bed, their breath doesn't stink of tobacco (at least ;-) and, LDS men do get the odd lesson, that nonLDS men do not, to show respect, take wives on dates, and be considerate of their wive's needs... Now, if LDS men do not abide such admonishments, it's probably cuz they ain't smart enough. Or are not well equiped: physically, emotionally, mentally, or dispositionally. Actually, many decades ago, Stake Pres asked me to speak on this topic. What good/harm it did??? Some good laughs, and comments. Never mentioned Temple once. And, fun for me...

Now along comes "Viagra" with its warning of a "FOUR HOUR ERRECTION"!! YIKES!!! No priesthood-worthy could abide THAT! Or,??? Better ask wives...

Scottie said:

Yeah, God's little joke. By the time a man figures women out, he's past his sexual prime, and the woman is just entering hers.

Obviously he, and Eddie are young, and speaking without experience. Of course we are aware of the primitive sex-drive, 14-24. It facilitated a very short life expectancy. And by no means is it an unhappy time, for most healthy males, and females.

But really, it's just practice time. Which we certainly need lots of. OTOH, civility and sophistication has progressed us to appreciate seasoned wine, sterling silver polished by the use of generations, priceless old arts and crafts in many forms, and even the wisdom of the sages/ages... However, the old saw, "life begins at 40" is best understood as really, "...begins at "menopause"... Hard to believe kiddies, until yer there...

What really should be considered here, as in many other areas, is Qualitative vs Quantitative, generally not the American WAY... Ya know waddimsayin'?? WARM regards, Roger, passed prime, but... :-0

You know Roger after taking three or four steps back I started to realize that you are probably saying that LDS being capable human beings are able to find positive sexual experience. Seems reasonable to me. If I was LDS I might be annoyed by talk that only mentions possible problems. Yes there is useful teachings about communication and respect.

But before I took those four five steps back I was stunned by what appeared to be the incredible negative stereotypes of gentles. You mean people actual believe the Brigham Young histeronics? fornication pants and all. I mean that sort of gentile hate must have been amusing in a land far out west. But I find myself think it is really difficult to converse with you about other Christian beliefs.If you actually believe this sort bizarre extremes then there is little reason to wonder why. Throwing up in bed.... jeez same to you.

[_BishopRic]

Think about it, Mon.

What might it be like to discover your own sexuality under the watchful eye of a church and it's leaders from say age 14 and on up. You're cautioned not to "self abuse" (the language is telling) and then asked behind closed doors if you are! What dynamic does this set up for a young person? You either beat yourself over the head and fess up or you lie about it. Nice choices. You're encouraged to marry rather early in life and then the church snoops into your marital bed covers and tells you "how" to conduct your intimacy. Talk about righteous dominion!

Oh, I have thought about it (see Coggies, I do think at times) and can not imagine! I mean, most teenagers I know sort of freak themselves out ANYWAY when they go "whoa" and discover "themselves" -- yanno what I mean? I mean, I did for sure and there wasn't anyone telling me NOT to and I still thought sheesh, this ain't right. :) LOL

Yah, well, I've been living under shame for a few years and it sort of warped me... Anyway, I can't imagine what growing up in the culture would do to you. It's gotta be rough. I know it is, actually...

I actually think this "no masturbation" thing is a key, though possibly unintentional, strategy in molding young Mormons into their guilt/shame/depend on the church for forgiveness mentality. Now, don't get me wrong, I don't presume that Mormonism started this, but they have sure perfected it!

Let me explain: teenage boy hits puberty (I will only speak for the male gender, since I am an expert with this one....), things start feeling kinda tingly down there, but parents are too embarrassed to talk much about it. Interview with the bish reveals that we are not supposed to "play"...at least for now. BUT, it's really a beautiful thing if we "save ourselves" for marriage...and this is how we co-create people with God.

But it REALLY feels good now, and I sometimes slip up and rubby rubby a little too much....

OOOOOh, the guilt that I have sinned a grievous sin! I pray, tell the bish, and commit to never do it again!

But I do.

The cycle continues, and I start to think I will never be strong enough to avoid the tempatation. Maybe a mission will help. The cycle continues...and I DO NOT feel worthy to do the work of the Lord...I must work harder to gain the Lord's blessings to resist temptation and become okay...

The inadequacy I feel creates a feeling of weakness..I will never be good enough! I depend on "God" and "his" institution to help me...
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Sounds like a great way to emotionally control a lot of people to me!