The sex thread

[_Jersey Girl]

Think about it, Mon.

What might it be like to discover your own sexuality under the watchful eye of a church and it's leaders from say age 14 and on up. You're cautioned not to "self abuse" (the language is telling) and then asked behind closed doors if you are! What dynamic does this set up for a young person? You either beat yourself over the head and fess up or you lie about it. Nice choices. You're encouraged to marry rather early in life and then the church snoops into your marital bed covers and tells you "how" to conduct your intimacy. Talk about righteous dominion!

Oh, I have thought about it (see Coggies, I do think at times) and can not imagine! I mean, most teenagers I know sort of freak themselves out ANYWAY when they go "whoa" and discover "themselves" -- yanno what I mean? I mean, I did for sure and there wasn't anyone telling me NOT to and I still thought sheesh, this ain't right. :) LOL

Yah, well, I've been living under shame for a few years and it sort of warped me... Anyway, I can't imagine what growing up in the culture would do to you. It's gotta be rough. I know it is, actually...

I actually think this "no masturbation" thing is a key, though possibly unintentional, strategy in molding young Mormons into their guilt/shame/depend on the church for forgiveness mentality. Now, don't get me wrong, I don't presume that Mormonism started this, but they have sure perfected it!

Let me explain: teenage boy hits puberty (I will only speak for the male gender, since I am an expert with this one....), things start feeling kinda tingly down there, but parents are too embarrassed to talk much about it. Interview with the bish reveals that we are not supposed to "play"...at least for now. BUT, it's really a beautiful thing if we "save ourselves" for marriage...and this is how we co-create people with God.

But it REALLY feels good now, and I sometimes slip up and rubby rubby a little too much....

OOOOOh, the guilt that I have sinned a grievous sin! I pray, tell the bish, and commit to never do it again!

But I do.

The cycle continues, and I start to think I will never be strong enough to avoid the tempatation. Maybe a mission will help. The cycle continues...and I DO NOT feel worthy to do the work of the Lord...I must work harder to gain the Lord's blessings to resist temptation and become okay...

The inadequacy I feel creates a feeling of weakness..I will never be good enough! I depend on "God" and "his" institution to help me...
.
.
.
.
Sounds like a great way to emotionally control a lot of people to me!

Emotional control? No kidding! As a never-LDS, I can think of no time in my life when masturbation was ever discussed in a religious context. None. Never. Ever. I honestly think that the Bish interview stuff is a violation especially when the interviewee is an under age minor.

Think of it this way.

Suppose a school teacher were to privately ask your teenager if they masturbate?

In that context, what would you call it?

[_Trevor]

Suppose a school teacher were to privately ask your teenager if they masturbate?

In that context, what would you call it?

One word that is very popular in LDS circles comes to mind: INAPPROPRIATE (to say the very least).

[_Jersey Girl]

Suppose a school teacher were to privately ask your teenager if they masturbate?

In that context, what would you call it?

One word that is very popular in LDS circles comes to mind: INAPPROPRIATE (to say the very least).

Or in legalize:

Sexual abuse of a minor by a person in a position of trust.

Edited to clarify the last line.

[_Trevor]

Or in legalize:

Sexual abuse of a minor by a person in a position of trust.

Edited to clarify the last line.

Not that I have any grounds to play the spelling martinet, but I think you are looking for legalese?

And I agree with you about the rest.

[_Jersey Girl]

Or in legalize:

Sexual abuse of a minor by a person in a position of trust.

Edited to clarify the last line.

Not that I have any grounds to play the spelling martinet, but I think you are looking for legalese?

And I agree with you about the rest.

Trevor,

You are a shameless spell checker. I stand (sit) corrected!

Jersey Girl

*goes to look up "martinet"* :-)

[_Jersey Girl]

To the martinetish Trevor,

Yes, I looked it up. A felony is still a felony.

Jersey Girl
;-)

[_Jason Bourne]

Dare I comment? I think it amazing that it often seems that men are more interested in sex than women especially given the fact that women seem much more biologically capable of mush more intense, long and multiple orgasms then men. I have commented to my wife multiple times :-) after a wonderful lovemaking session where I have been part of giving her intensely long and many orgasms how jealous I am that I end up with only one out of the deal that while the build up is certainly wonderful it does not last all the long at climax. Course if I could do that I would probably want to have sex all nigh every night. Generally sex can and should be much better for women, if they have a talented lover to help them on the way.

I guess it has to do with quantity versus quality. Some men can "reperform" after the first climax, but if a second climax occurs, it tends to be fairly weak. I think we all understand the physiology of how and why this is so with men. But I wonder if there's something similar in women, too - obviously not in terms of specific orgasms, but perhaps in terms of sexual tension that builds up over time. I have noticed that when my boyfriend and I, for whatever reason, go longer between lovemaking than normal, the next episode tends to be quite explosive on both of our parts.

Yes I think you are correct. A bit of time tends to make the build up stronger. I think with men it is biological and with women may be more the emotions or tension as you stated. Still, sex really can be quite wonderful for women especially if a man takes his time and knows where to apply things nicely.

[_Jason Bourne]

Leave it to Jason, to say all those wise and wonderful things.

Are you teasing me?

Why do you suppose LDS women are unwilling to wear something sexy? Think that anything out of the ordinary missionary position is too adventuresome (deviant is such a strong word)? Think that sex is just for making babies? Who told them that? Who told them that over and over and over from the time they reach puberty? Who keeps telling them that, every Sunday for their entire adult life?

Yea, yes I know but us men heard the same things growing up.

PS. Obviously non-LDS women wear sexy lingerie all the time. Victoria's Secret isn't exactly a small business.

Well I am sure happy my wife has visited that store a few times as well as Fredericks. Ooo lalala!

[Dr. Sunstoned]

unimaginative
unromantic
insensitive
some took too long
some were too quick
unskilled/lacking finesse and technique

So, a tiny sample from your own small circle of friends and aquaintences (and might these not share some of your own intellectual and psychological preoccupations?) is bandied about here as representative of-precisely what?

Its things like this that are just the best committed critics of the Church can do that make it so dispiriting to even engage the criticisms. Probably 80% of all anti-Mormon criticism is at this juncture ad hominem attacks on the character, intelligence, patriotism (Rollo contra Romney), education, and now, sexual prowess of Latter Day Saints.

Like Jews and Blacks before, there is just something wrong with those Mormons. What will we do about those Mormons? They can't even screw correctly. The men are poor lovers (not to mention being shiftless, lazy, and of low intelligence) and the woman all pop tranquilizers and Prozac (all the better to deal with their lackluster sex lives).

Harmony fits right in with the long line of bigots, provocateurs, and desperate, grasping demagogues that form the nucleus of virtually all North American anti-Mormonism. She's a piece of work. It would be nice if she were actually a Mormon as well, but why split hairs at this point?

[_Jason Bourne]

Generally sex can and should be much better for women, if they have a talented lover to help them on the way.

Talented lovers seem to be in short supply in the LDS church. The church is much more anxious to create appropriate lovers (as judged by the 15 in SLC) than talented lovers.

I am quite certain my wife would call me talented if I do say so myself and she is talented as well. As for others, I don't really know. Men seem more quite about these kinds of things.