beastie wrote:Well, how generous of you. You respect them as “children of God”. Of course, this phrase becomes less meaningful when you realize that, under Mormon theology, every human being on the face of the earth merits that kind of “respect”, even Hitler.
And is the reason why I could not accept Rogerianism. I am not perfect enough for uncondtional love. Yet.
beastie wrote:[
Implicit in your statement that one should refrain from JUDGING the victims of abuse is the idea that some could rightfully be judged, by God, at least.
We all are. For anything which the victim refused to listen to promptings of the Spirit, yes, she will be judged.
beastie wrote:since you’re big on accountability, will you hold the authority figures who have given horrendous advice to victims of abuse accountable as well? Or how about institutions that place them in positions where people are encouraged to view these authority figures as having the insight and ability to help them with difficult life issues? Or the highest leaders in those institutions?
Absolutely.
beastie wrote: And how about God? Are you going to hold God accountable for the fact that he apparently wasn’t willing to convey clear information to those people who act in his name, in order to help alleviate such vast human suffering?
How about those who don't listen? How about those that deliberately do evil and wicked things? We have agency. If Gpod stepped in and stopped every bad act, if He whacked every person upside the head who was throwing off the inspirations they received, we would not have agency. That was the plan.
beastie wrote: Do I think they have made unwise decisions? Of course, I do. Research indicates that abuse begins very early in a relationship. Long before marriage, children. Do I think there was the opportunity early on to get out when getting out is relatively easy? Of course.
Oh, do tell me. Why would women make the “unwise decision” to stay with an abuser before having children, when the ‘getting out is relatively easy’? I really want to know why you imagine they do this.
Because they are "in love." Because he has prestige and they want to ride on his glory train. Becaue he has a good income. Because they look only at the superficial, unimportant features of a person's personality. Because they don't want to admit they made a mistake. Because they made a vow of "for better or worse." All these are CHOICES.
beastie wrote:
Let me tell you, charity, these victims of abuse are stronger than you could ever imagine from your patronizing perch as someone who has never experienced abuse. They find a way to survive every single day, and to help their children survive. They aren’t weak. They always had a spine. They – like the rest of our culture, including YOU – just don’t understand the dynamics of abuse and keep hoping they can do SOMETHING to make it change – OR they realize the risks of exit are too great.
Okay. I can see now. Imperfect person that I am, I can see that I judge some of these victims. If they have children in the home, they aren't being strong to stay there. No child benefits in any way from being in an abusive home. How do you think boys learn to abuse? How do you think girls learn to be abused? Good grief. Any woman who cares about her children first will get them out of there. So yes. I guess I am judging them.
beastie wrote:It’s almost a form of magical thinking, like child victims of parental abuse often develop. To accept that you have NO CONTROL over something so horrific that keeps happening is a fate worse than death. So they pretend they have control. They pretend if they’re perfect enough, then it won’t happen. Or if they do X, Y, and Z, it won’t happen. To really accept that the person who supposedly loves them more than anyone else in the world would do this to them for NO GOOD REASON is just too frightening a reality to accept. So they prefer magical thinking.
We aren't talking about child abuse. Different matter altgether.
beastie wrote:I’m going to share more of my own story, in the hopes of helping you understand. Up until my marriage, I had not experienced abuse, so knew nothing about how it works. When I became LDS as the age of 19, I became immersed in a culture that highly praised marriage and children, chastity, and the possibility of repentance, change, and forgiveness for ALL sins. I became immersed in a culture that taught me to view certain men as authority figures, who had the God-given “right” to be a steward of some sort over me. I became immersed in a culture that valued marrying other believers, in the temple, and viewed the covenants made the temple as the most serious promises one can make in this life.
You know the real irony? My ex-husband was unusual in that he normally didn’t “honeymoon” me after abuse. Of course his situation is complicated by untreated bipolar, (another thing I had never heard of) as well, so who knows what he really remembered about his own behavior. But when I left the LDS church, he suddenly tried to shape up and began treating me better, began “honeymooning” me between episodes. When I first left the LDS church, he told me “I’ll be the next to go.” So he decided, apparently, that he could not abuse me at will without even trying to behave in between times, because he knew I would never leave him as long as I was a believer in the LDS church.
The LDS church was my effective jailer, in his eyes. Ironic, isn’t it?
In retrospect, the unwise decision I’d made that enabled me to be trapped in the cycle of abuse was joining the LDS church.
Grow up! Of course you were abused. Living with a person with treated bipolar disorder is bad enough, but untreated it must have been h***. But blaming the Church for it? Where were you for the first 19 years of your life? Did you have parents to go to who would give you the non-LDS perspective? I can't believe from your assertive nature here you couldn't have been similarly assertive.