Spiritual trauma: did you have any?

[_beastie]

Well, I don't want to follow the thread, but I want to keep talking to Beastie. :)

Yes, my husband recognized my strength too. It is he that is weak. His greatest fear was losing me. So in an effort to ensure that I could never leave he attempted to sap the strength and pride from me. And in many ways he did, yet unfortunately, for he, I found a different sort of strength. Not one that he expected, yet it manifested nonetheless. Anyway, it's a complex situation, and each are unique in their own way with broad themes. Yet, there's no doubting that the longer these women stay the more shame society inundates them with. That's really quite sad. If it's been 6 months, 10 years, 50 years, no matter what the time -- each of these women have a certain strength when they stay, and when (and if) they ever leave.

YES YES YES

It's bizarre, isn't it? My exhusband completely fell apart when I left him. He disintegrated. For weeks, he made his mother spend every night with him because he was afraid he would kill himself (in between threatening to kill me, of course). This is a symptom of how sick these people are - they actually NEED us far more than we could ever need them - in a way, they're emotional vampires, trying to leech our own strength - and yet they treat us so horrendously it almost guarantees their worst fear will come true.

I'm often reminded of the disturbing movie "Misery". In order to ensure that the author whom she dotes on and needs to feel emotionally satisfied will never leave her, the nutty female character breaks his legs. That is exactly what abusers are trying to do. They are trying to "break our legs" figuratively, so we CAN'T leave. They break our legs in many ways - isolated us from friends or family who might help, making us financially crippled, using the children as pawns, but, most importantly, convincing us that we are not capable of judging reality accurately. It would be like the character breaking the author's legs, and then refusing to admit that she broke his legs at all, and trying to make him feel crazy for insisting she broke his legs. They create an alternate reality, and become ENRAGED when others don't play along.

The saddest thing, at the core of this all, is that they don't understand human relationships and love. For whatever reason, often rooted in childhood, they believe that relationships are power struggles, and he who has the power rules and that's what keeps relationships going. They are not capable, as they currently are, of having normal, loving, human relationships. And that is incredibly tragic.

I've escaped my exhusband (with the exception of dealing with the messes me makes with the children). But he can never escape himself, and just doesn't have the courage to confront it. It's such a waste.

[_Moniker]

This is especially true because one of the abuser's tricks is to insist that the victim is not viewing reality accurately. It's a form of gaslighting, even to the point of denying what actually occurred. One of my exhusband's favorite tactics was to say incredibly cruel things to me and then laugh. When I protested, he would say I just didn't have a "sense of humor", that he was obviously joking. Since all of this behavior usually takes place behind closed doors, there's no one there to validate what you have just experienced, so you're left questioning your own perception of reality - which is, of course, the abuser's goal. He's not really the "bad guy". YOU ARE.

So, yes, being willing to trust your own perception of what has occurred, being willing to say, no, these things weren't meant as a "joke" and no normal human being would view them as a "joke" is an absolutely essential step. ("joke" being my particular example, not the template) It's the step that signals that the victim is ready to trust her ability to perceive reality accurately. Until that happens, she will remain trapped.

Anyway, I'm so glad you're on this board, Beastie. :)

Backatcha! :)

I too know the "jokes". All too well. I have a great deal of difficulty moderating emotional extremes of late, quite a bit of difficulty coming to terms if what I perceive is accurate or a distortion of some sort. Actually, though many of these jokes were made in others company which was so humiliating and embarrassing for me that I gladly desired to lose all sorts of companionship outside of my husband. For, I'd rather have a laugh at my expense made only by my husband rather than for others to see the ridicule. Anyway, about the dumb remark. I feel dumb, I feel stupid, and have so for years. I look at my gpa sometimes, my transcript, my LSAT score, my old course work -- I wonder if the woman that exists now is that same woman? Too bad that the one person that you trust and love persists in telling you you're dumb -- and then society reinforces his perception when you finally relate what is occurring. Like I said, there must be strength -- when they stay, or they leave.

[_beastie]

I too know the "jokes". All too well. I have a great deal of difficulty moderating emotional extremes of late, quite a bit of difficulty coming to terms is what I perceive is accurate or a distortion of some sort. Actually, though many of these jokes were made in others company which was so humiliating and embarrassing for me that I gladly desired to lose all sorts of companionship outside of my husband. For, I'd rather have a laugh at my expense made only by my husband rather than for others to see the ridicule. Anyway, about the dumb remark. I feel dumb, I feel stupid, and have so for years. I look at my gpa sometimes, my transcript, my LSAT score, my old school work -- I wonder if the woman that exists now is that same woman? Too bad that the one person that you trust and love persists in telling you you're dumb -- and then society reinforces his perception when you finally relate what is occurring. Like I said, there must be strength -- when they stay, or they leave.

Charity, I hope you pay particular attention to the lines I bolded.

[_Trevor]

Charity, I hope you pay particular attention to the lines I bolded.

I noticed that too.

[_beastie]

I think charity's fundamental mistake is that she believes victims of abuse are "others". In a way, maybe it's too scary to admit otherwise, although you would think witnessing your own daughter's abuse would make you think twice. They're "other"- different than Charity, that is - in that they are weak or stupid. This belief is very common, and creates a false sense of security. It could never happen to YOU, because you're NOT stupid or weak.

The hard reality is that anyone, given the right circumstances, can become a victim of abuse. Patricia Evans was very thorough with this, and engaged in extensive surveys of victims of abuse in order to attain enough background information to justify her assertion. Victims of abuse are as varied as the larger population - some are educated, some are illiterate. Some are intelligent, some are not. Some are wealthy, some are poor. Some were assertive, bold individuals, some were not. The only common factor we shared was that we had the misfortune of ending up in an abuser's target sights.

[_Moniker]

YES YES YES

It's bizarre, isn't it? My exhusband completely fell apart when I left him. He disintegrated. For weeks, he made his mother spend every night with him because he was afraid he would kill himself (in between threatening to kill me, of course). This is a symptom of how sick these people are - they actually NEED us far more than we could ever need them - in a way, they're emotional vampires, trying to leech our own strength - and yet they treat us so horrendously it almost guarantees their worst fear will come true.

Yes, I've always, essentially, recognized that my husband needed more than I needed him. Yet, perhaps, just because of my nurturing tendencies I felt such immense guilt and trepidation at the aspect of letting him go. Mine has completely crumpled. A shell of his former self, as I've regained my own strength he has completely lost his facade of strength. It's difficult to witness, for me. I want to scoop him up and love him, yet, I know I must not.

I'm often reminded of the disturbing movie "Misery". In order to ensure that the author whom she dotes on and needs to feel emotionally satisfied will never leave her, the nutty female character breaks his legs. That is exactly what abusers are trying to do. They are trying to "break our legs" figuratively, so we CAN'T leave. They break our legs in many ways - isolated us from friends or family who might help, making us financially crippled, using the children as pawns, but, most importantly, convincing us that we are not capable of judging reality accurately. It would be like the character breaking the author's legs, and then refusing to admit that she broke his legs at all, and trying to make him feel crazy for insisting she broke his legs. They create an alternate reality, and become ENRAGED when others don't play along.

Yes.

The saddest thing, at the core of this all, is that they don't understand human relationships and love. For whatever reason, often rooted in childhood, they believe that relationships are power struggles, and he who has the power rules and that's what keeps relationships going. They are not capable, as they currently are, of having normal, loving, human relationships. And that is incredibly tragic.

I've escaped my exhusband (with the exception of dealing with the messes me makes with the children). But he can never escape himself, and just doesn't have the courage to confront it. It's such a waste.

Well, I always recognized that my husband had a very tortured childhood. Yet, I related in one sense and grew out of mine and found lessons from life where I desired to not repeat the behavior of those who raised me -- and the dynamics of that life. He never escaped his, and continues the cycle of his life. I always understood what was going on -- and perhaps, because I do throw ropes to those I see wounded by life I threw one to him. To love and nurture him, as is my tendency to do so. Anyway, I despair for my husband, I despair for my children. Yet, I despair for myself no longer. :)

[_Moniker]

I think charity's fundamental mistake is that she believes victims of abuse are "others". In a way, maybe it's too scary to admit otherwise, although you would think witnessing your own daughter's abuse would make you think twice. They're "other"- different than Charity, that is - in that they are weak or stupid. This belief is very common, and creates a false sense of security. It could never happen to YOU, because you're NOT stupid or weak.

The hard reality is that anyone, given the right circumstances, can become a victim of abuse. Patricia Evans was very thorough with this, and engaged in extensive surveys of victims of abuse in order to attain enough background information to justify her assertion. Victims of abuse are as varied as the larger population - some are educated, some are illiterate. Some are intelligent, some are not. Some are wealthy, some are poor. Some were assertive, bold individuals, some were not. The only common factor we shared was that we had the misfortune of ending up in an abuser's target sights.

Well, as you know, I had a history with the feminist movement. Worked quite hard my entire life NOT to be victimized, in any capacity. Felt an incredible amount of pride connected to the feminine. This, for me, perhaps, was why it was difficult to find myself in the situation I found myself in and to grasp that yes, I was indeed a victim. No amount of rationalization, denial, or attempts to twist the situation into empowerment could change the fact that a woman that had spent most of her life helping victims rise above became one herself. That was difficult to admit to others -- more so to admit to myself.

[_Trevor]

I think charity's fundamental mistake is that she believes victims of abuse are "others". In a way, maybe it's too scary to admit otherwise, although you would think witnessing your own daughter's abuse would make you think twice. They're "other"- different than Charity, that is - in that they are weak or stupid. This belief is very common, and creates a false sense of security. It could never happen to YOU, because you're NOT stupid or weak.

This is so true of our erroneous beliefs about tragedy and evil in general. We like to imagine that we are somehow different.

[_beastie]

Moniker,

I relate so strongly to what you're saying it brings tears to my eyes.

Yes, I've always, essentially, recognized that my husband needed more than I needed him. Yet, perhaps, just because of my nurturing tendencies I felt such immense guilt and trepidation at the aspect of letting him go. Mine has completely crumpled. A shell of his former self, as I've regained my own strength he has completely lost his facade of strength. It's difficult to witness, for me. I want to scoop him up and love him, yet, I know I must not.

Abusers take advantage of our STRENGTHS. They know we want to nurture, to love. So they know they can talk us into giving them chance after chance after chance. I will never forget one incident in particular, with my ex. The children and I were still living in our home, he was staying with his mother, but since his shop was in our basement he came to our house daily. Of course this situation could not continue and I was looking for another place to live, which was hard on me because I didn't have the money to do it and would have to ask my father for help. I hated having to ask for money. But anyway, on this particular day he actually watched the kids for me so I could go to the grocery store (this was very unusual, normally I was left to juggle the kids and chores all alone). When I came back home, my oldest son came out (he was around ten at the time) and told me that daddy was sick and needed an ambulance. But it was odd, because my oldest son wasn't in a panic - he "knew" what was going on before I did. So I rushed into the house, and my husband was collapsed on the living room floor. I was frightened and concerned, but my husband did not want an ambulance. After I sat by him and talked to him for a while, he was able to get himself together enough to get off the floor and talk some more. I took him outside so the children wouldn't have to continue witnessing this. He just disintegrated before my eyes - it was heart wrenching. It was one of the very few moments in our marriage - probably in his life - where he let his mask completely drop and let me see "him". And he was just a puddle of helplessness and fear. He even admitted that he knew something was very wrong with him, but he didn't know what, and that I was right to leave him because I deserved better. I tried to contact his psychiatrist, because by that time he was going to therapy - marital and individual. Shortly thereafter he was diagnosed with bipolar and his doctor told me it sounded like he had a psychotic break. But it was heartbreaking. He was the most broken human being I'd ever seen. Yet, by that point, I knew I could not rescue him.

Shortly after that he resumed the mask and went back on the attack, even to the point of threatening to kill me. But I will never forget that one moment where he let me see the real him, and how broken he was. It must be frightening to feel that complete brokenness inside, and yet not have the courage to face it and try to fix it. But this was the internal demon that he projected onto me, and then attacked ME.

I really do not think anyone can really understand these relationships unless they've lived it, or have worked closely with victims of abuse. So in the meantime, it feels better to think of us as weak and stupid.

[_beastie]

This is so true of our erroneous beliefs about tragedy and evil in general. We like to imagine that we are somehow different.

YES! And I believe it has to do with our desire to feel safe, our desire to believe we can CONTROL our lives. It is frightening to fully recognize how much of life is beyond our control. (and, of course, I believe the desire to control is part of what creates religion)