the placebo effect

[_The Nehor]

No, I don't believe Prophets are under a higher law. Joseph taught that they are not. Don't have the quote handy but he did say that we can't expect to sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob unless we do what they did. Any 2 bit dirtbag can claim to be a Prophet but that's what the whole Holy Ghost thing is for. Joseph repeatedly taught that he was a man and had faults. I take him at his word. President Hinckley has said that he thinks he is an ordinary man with a special witness. I don't think this is some pseudomodesty. I think he believes it and that he's correct.

I'm not sure what the point is of comparing yourself to Joseph. The goal is to become Christ. Christ can judge his own servants. He doesn't need my help.

With all due respect, Nehor, in reference to the bolded statement above.

Why does the church have worthiness interviews? Why are there requirements for entering the temple? Why can't just anyone go to the temple?

I thought that all of Mormondom was supposed to be a higher law of some kind.

Why are there 3 degrees of glory if there is no higher or differing degrees of laws to live to?

While I can agree that all mankind is based in some degree of sin or non-perfection, I can't buy into the idea that the spokesperson for God does not rise to some kind of higher standard.

I would expect Joseph Smith to at least live up to higher law that a Deacon or Temple Patron would have to. In my view he did not.

I was contrasting Prophets to lay LDS. We all have a 'higher law' in the sense that it is not the Mosaic Code though it is not the 'highest law'. Anyone else think Section 89 is a lot like the law of Carnal commandments in the Old Testament?

There are laws to live but the Prophet is not under an obligation to some higher law simply by virtue of being the Prophet. The Church has worthiness interviews to shield people from ordinances they are not able to live.

There are laws relating to the degrees of Glory (I suspect there are more than 3) that differ but unless you're shooting for the Terrestrial the laws of Exaltation are the same for all. Prophets don't get it any harder. Ward Choristers don't get a lighter standard.

[_Pokatator]

Nehor wrote:

I was contrasting Prophets to lay LDS.

I was, too. I also stated that Joseph Smith failed at it, too.

[_The Nehor]

Nehor wrote:

I was contrasting Prophets to lay LDS.

I was, too. I also stated that Joseph Smith failed at it, too.

Not my problem if he did. When it comes to salvation, in the end it's everyone for themselves.

[_EAllusion]

This probably was already said but in response to the OP, the placebo effect does not explain why people feel as though generic horoscopes apply to them with unique insight.

[_dartagnan]

Hey guy,

ID may be a theory, but it is a non-testable one. It should NOT be taught in public schools--it is NOT science. It is a religion masquerading as science.

Again, the Big Bang is not a testable theory either, but it is taught in schools. ID is a reasonable conclusion given the overwhelming evidence surrounding us. Everything we see has intelligent design written all over it whether some people choose to realize it or not. If we blasted the Mona Lisa into space and 50 billion light years away some aliens came across it, I suppose given this kind of logic, they would have to also conclude that it was also a result of some kind of cosmic accident. I mean the hypothesis that humans on the other side of the galaxy were responsible for it, this would also be untestable right?

Alien visitations is a theory as well to explain certain physical phenomena (have you read "In Search of Ancient Astronauts?") Why do you privilege ID over alien visitation?

As far as I am aware, nobody assumes the existence of aliens explains our exietence and the universe around us. The comparison isn't valid.

Open the door to this one, my friend, and you'll soon see the entire camel trying to shove his body under the tent, and you'll find your children being taught all sorts of religious nonsense toward which you feel decidedly less friendly.

I'm not sympathetic to this kind of paranoia. It strikes me more as intolerance and even bigotry towards theism when scientists respond so defensivley to alternative theories. ID itself is not a religion as you prefer to believe. It is a valid hypothesis that explains the existence of the universe. Is it testable? Perhaps not, perhaps so. But it should not be discounted simply because we don't know any means by which it can be properly tested. The Big Bang cannot be tested either, so do you agree that the Big Bang, as a theory, should be removed from texbooks? Some might get offended (probably 80%+ of the general public) to know their kids are being taught that their existence is merely the the product of a cosmic accident, and that there is no intrinsic or apparent purpose to their lives, anymore than there is purpose for a meteorite to have landed in a desert in Arizona.

Ok, then, what is the nature of God? What are his attributes? How well do these attributes explain the world around us?

These are irrelevant questions that are beside the point that the universe was created at some point in time by a supreme intelligence; the same as it is apparently irrelevant whether or not Neutron Star is a squishy substance, or wether it smells like roses or burnt toast. Science can't answer these questions about this "fact" either, so why must ID answer all tangential questions?

[_EAllusion]

Where did Kevin get the idea that Big Bang theory is not testable?

[_Scottie]

Nehor wrote:

I was contrasting Prophets to lay LDS.

I was, too. I also stated that Joseph Smith failed at it, too.

Not my problem if he did. When it comes to salvation, in the end it's everyone for themselves.

Except when you come face to face with God and he damns you for being in the wrong religion.

What are you going to say when He asks you why you stayed in a religion that was so blatantly false? The warning signs were all there. The evidence was insurmountable. I gave you a brain, and you didn't use it! In all my years of judging I have never heard before, of someone more deserving of the full penalty of the law. The way you made them suffer, your exquisite wife and mother, fills me with the urge to defecate!

[_The Nehor]

Nehor wrote:

I was contrasting Prophets to lay LDS.

I was, too. I also stated that Joseph Smith failed at it, too.

Not my problem if he did. When it comes to salvation, in the end it's everyone for themselves.

Except when you come face to face with God and he damns you for being in the wrong religion.

What are you going to say when He asks you why you stayed in a religion that was so blatantly false? The warning signs were all there. The evidence was insurmountable. I gave you a brain, and you didn't use it! In all my years of judging I have never heard before, of someone more deserving of the full penalty of the law. The way you made them suffer, your exquisite wife and mother, fills me with the urge to defecate!

Well, that's God's right. I hope he explains where all these communications have been coming from though. Hell will probably be more bitter if I have to wonder about that on top of everything else.

I don't think it's blatantly false. I see no warning signs. The evidence seems contrived to me. I'm pretty sure there's someone out there more deserving of the full penalty of the Law. The guy who wrote the Jeopardy theme song for example. What does my mother have to do with this? I advise defecating then. Your body gives you that signal for a reason.

[_Scottie]

Nehor wrote:

I was contrasting Prophets to lay LDS.

I was, too. I also stated that Joseph Smith failed at it, too.

Not my problem if he did. When it comes to salvation, in the end it's everyone for themselves.

Except when you come face to face with God and he damns you for being in the wrong religion.

What are you going to say when He asks you why you stayed in a religion that was so blatantly false? The warning signs were all there. The evidence was insurmountable. I gave you a brain, and you didn't use it! In all my years of judging I have never heard before, of someone more deserving of the full penalty of the law. The way you made them suffer, your exquisite wife and mother, fills me with the urge to defecate!

Well, that's God's right. I hope he explains where all these communications have been coming from though. Hell will probably be more bitter if I have to wonder about that on top of everything else.

I don't think it's blatantly false. I see no warning signs. The evidence seems contrived to me. I'm pretty sure there's someone out there more deserving of the full penalty of the Law. The guy who wrote the Jeopardy theme song for example. What does my mother have to do with this? I advise defecating then. Your body gives you that signal for a reason.

I guess you're not a Pink Floyd fan?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE2t6HWmquc

[_The Nehor]

Nope