TBM's: Killer blow to the Book of Mormon?

[_Jersey Girl]

There is nothing more "flimsy" than that offered by Mormons that a feeling proves historical truth.

I don't know of any Mormon that offers a "feeling" to prove a historical truth.

What historical truth are you referring to? If it happens to be the historical truth of the content of the Book of Mormon, what is it that you rely on?

[_charity]

There is nothing more "flimsy" than that offered by Mormons that a feeling proves historical truth.

I don't know of any Mormon that offers a "feeling" to prove a historical truth.

What historical truth are you referring to? If it happens to be the historical truth of the content of the Book of Mormon, what is it that you rely on?

My testimony, my membership in the Church, my activity there is not based on the historical truth of the content of the Book of Mormon. I read the Book of Mormon for the turths of the gospel, not truths of geography.

[_sunstoned]

The other day there was a local news story on Warren Jeffs the FLDS prophet. He had come out and publicly confessed that he was not a prophet, that he had mislead his followers for years. Even with this blunt admission, many FLDS refused to be swayed. One follower argued that it was just a test of faith.

I thought this a good example of the amount of logic, evidence and in your face facts that some people can rationalize away in order to not to upset their little happy world.

[_mentalgymnast]

If I were to try to be creative like Joe, I'd at least make sure I got rid of all the evidence that shows I made it up!

Where he really screwed up was going to/through all that time and effort to create the whole Book of Mormon fraud/scheme. Of course the Book of Mormon proves that Joseph Smith was a charlatan! The Book of Mormon is the ONE evidence that is going to be gosh darn hard to dispense with at this point in time. Heavens, if the Book of Mormon had been dispensed with before it was ever published, that would have saved a WHOLE lot of grief for the FARMS folks having to go through and wear out their lives picking/pointing out internal evidences (meant of course for the good farm folks back during the time of Joseph Smith), just so we can keep it on the shelf next to the Bible without being embarrassed to do so.

And what a scourge the Book of Mormon has been throughout the earth. That God would even think of bringing forth an artifact/evidence providing reason/additional witness to believe in him and his Son is laughable. There's no reason for him to do that. Christopher Hitchens and his buddies aren't doing any damage, after all.

Joseph Smith should have been able to see this and destroy the evidence of his folly. Along with any record of the Kinderhook plates, polygamy, questionable revelations, etc. To show or demonstrate any indication that he was a flawed and at times unworthy human being was error in the extreme on his part. Ralph Waldo Emerson would have done a much better job if God had shown the smarts to call him to the work.

Then again, it may be that we don't have all the information needed to make a complete and final judgement call on Joseph Smith and his works.

by the way, there is a connotative/qualitative difference between calling Joseph Smith, "Joe", "The Prophet Joseph Smith", and "Joseph Smith". Each designation shows a different degree/level of respect for the man. I would guess you feel constrained to go with the less respectful of the possible choices.

Possibly because you feel/see him to be a lesser man than yourself?

Regards,
MG

[_Jersey Girl]

While I would be skeptical that charity would participate in anything like that, charity appears to be equally irrational and no evidence, no rational consideration, nothing could be a “killer blow” as you state.

This sure brings back memories. Remember when you called me irrational and accused me of being mentally defective. I countered that I have never been diagnosed with any mental infirmity nor was I ever on any medication for such a condition and requested like confirmation from you. You never answered and disappeared from the thread. Still curious ;)

What thread was that on? What forum?

[_The Nehor]

While I would be skeptical that charity would participate in anything like that, charity appears to be equally irrational and no evidence, no rational consideration, nothing could be a “killer blow” as you state.

This sure brings back memories. Remember when you called me irrational and accused me of being mentally defective. I countered that I have never been diagnosed with any mental infirmity nor was I ever on any medication for such a condition and requested like confirmation from you. You never answered and disappeared from the thread. Still curious ;)

What thread was that on? What forum?

I'm not sure if it was Celestial or Terrestrial though I suspect the former. Don't remember the thread name. It was fun though.

[_BishopRic]

If I were to try to be creative like Joe, I'd at least make sure I got rid of all the evidence that shows I made it up!

Where he really screwed up was going to/through all that time and effort to create the whole Book of Mormon fraud/scheme.

Joe's life was better after his scheme than before. Consider what he did as a job. And he was reasonably successful...had a good salary, wine, and women. Some consider that worth the work he did.

Of course the Book of Mormon proves that Joseph Smith was a charlatan! The Book of Mormon is the ONE evidence that is going to be gosh darn hard to dispense with at this point in time. Heavens, if the Book of Mormon had been dispensed with before it was ever published, that would have saved a WHOLE lot of grief for the FARMS folks having to go through and wear out their lives picking/pointing out internal evidences (meant of course for the good farm folks back during the time of Joseph Smith), just so we can keep it on the shelf next to the Bible without being embarrassed to do so.

There's much invested in that little book, emotionally and financially. They will do what is necessary to keep Joseph's Myth alive.

And what a scourge the Book of Mormon has been throughout the earth.

There are many books that people read for inspiration. I read quite a few that I know darn well are fiction. I still get inspired by them to do good things to people. My only point is that when the Mormons start calling MY books and behaviors "sinful," you will probably get a response.

Joseph Smith should have been able to see this and destroy the evidence of his folly.

This is a good point. If Joe wasn't "called of God," I would expect him to make all the mistakes he did. Thank you for pointing that out.

by the way, there is a connotative/qualitative difference between calling Joseph Smith, "Joe", "The Prophet Joseph Smith", and "Joseph Smith". Each designation shows a different degree/level of respect for the man. I would guess you feel constrained to go with the less respectful of the possible choices.

Possibly because you feel/see him to be a lesser man than yourself?

Do you really want the answer to this? I don't think Shades would allow what I should call him to be typed on this forum. I certainly put him in the same category as Jones and Koresh. What do you call those "men of God?"

Regards,
MG

And to you...
~BR

[_Moniker]

Jak!!! How you been? You are assuming Charity needs a consensus of popular opinion in order to have reached a conclusion. The conclusions of JAK should be treated with the greatest skepticism as when knowledge increases we can conclude that there is no evidence proving that JAK in fact exists and is not a head of cabbage.

JAK, if God particularly cared about the whole world having definitive proof he existed he could do it. He doesn't. This means that those people who rely on scientific consensus and other's searching will never find him. It would do not good if they could. It's a path all must walk on their own and God seems to like it that way. So no, you won't find God that way. You have to find him like everyone else did. Or not. Your choice.

Holy freaking hell! I didn't read more than 6 words before I started snorting. weeee....

[_Jersey Girl]

While I would be skeptical that charity would participate in anything like that, charity appears to be equally irrational and no evidence, no rational consideration, nothing could be a “killer blow” as you state.

This sure brings back memories. Remember when you called me irrational and accused me of being mentally defective. I countered that I have never been diagnosed with any mental infirmity nor was I ever on any medication for such a condition and requested like confirmation from you. You never answered and disappeared from the thread. Still curious ;)

What thread was that on? What forum?

I'm not sure if it was Celestial or Terrestrial though I suspect the former. Don't remember the thread name. It was fun though.

Then why on earth are you blathering about it in this thread? If you want a response from JAK regarding another thread, go find the thread and post your request there. It is a huge PITA to try to read the exchanges with so much off topic junk like you're putting out cluttering them up.

[_The Nehor]

While I would be skeptical that charity would participate in anything like that, charity appears to be equally irrational and no evidence, no rational consideration, nothing could be a “killer blow” as you state.

This sure brings back memories. Remember when you called me irrational and accused me of being mentally defective. I countered that I have never been diagnosed with any mental infirmity nor was I ever on any medication for such a condition and requested like confirmation from you. You never answered and disappeared from the thread. Still curious ;)

What thread was that on? What forum?

I'm not sure if it was Celestial or Terrestrial though I suspect the former. Don't remember the thread name. It was fun though.

Then why on earth are you blathering about it in this thread? If you want a response from JAK regarding another thread, go find the thread and post your request there. It is a huge PITA to try to read the exchanges with so much off topic junk like you're putting out cluttering them up.

I would suggest you just ignore virtually everything I say then. A lot of it is blathering. Anyways, back to your regularly scheduled thread.