Politics mixed with religion in Utah

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_the road to hana
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Post by _the road to hana »

charity wrote:Anti's are so funny. Conspiracies all over the place. Spooky.


Gosh, I don't know, Charity. If Mike Huckabee wins the next U.S. presidential election, would you be comfortable learning that he and his staff were having early morning sessions in the White House to discuss how to implement Southern Baptist teaching and policy into the national government?
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_Jason Bourne
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Re: Politics mixed with religion in Utah

Post by _Jason Bourne »

Mercury wrote:The transcripts of meetings that took place 11 years ago at the governors mansion reveal a somewhat shocking tidbit. The state government was counse to se the Book of Mormon as a tool to judge the success of a civilization. This is silly and is an example on why Romney will lose tomorrow..

During one session, Leavitt and others talked about King Benjamin, who in the Book of Mormon encourages people to serve one another. Leavitt said the king's era would be a ``prime one to look at'' when studying the success of civilizations.



No more then Huckabee quipping the Jesus would not have run for political office when assked about the WWJD on the death penalty.
_moksha
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Post by _moksha »

Leavitt's lessons: State archivist is right to keep those records open
Tribune Editorial
Article Last Updated: 01/01/2008 02:13:02 PM MST


When then-Gov. Mike Leavitt delivered his second inaugural address in January 1997, a speech laden with references to God, Mormon folklore and the governor's views on divinely inspired civic morality, we were taken aback.
We questioned in this space whether he could preach his gospel of civic virtue "without compromising his role as chief executive of a civil government pledged to religious neutrality."
What we didn't know at the time was that this speech, and Leavitt's civic virtues campaign that followed, were the products of "Early Morning Seminary" classes the governor convened with some of his closest advisers to pore over the Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants and draw from them lessons about public policy.
That revelation came when The Salt Lake Tribune obtained copies of papers from the state archives that Leavitt has sought to suppress. We believe, however, that when the leaders of their state government are reading scriptures to mine guiding principles for public policy, the people have a right to know that. There is no valid reason why that information should be guarded as a secret, and the state archivist ruled correctly on Monday to keep those papers public.
That transparency is particularly important in Utah, where the line of separation between the government and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is a perennial issue and where that church and the ruling Republican Party are seen to be closely identified one with the other.


This could have implications for a Romney Administration as well: Hide those notes for early morning Seminary meetings.
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_SUAS
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Re: Politics mixed with religion in Utah

Post by _SUAS »

Mercury wrote:The transcripts of meetings that took place 11 years ago at the governors mansion reveal a somewhat shocking tidbit. The state government was counse to se the Book of Mormon as a tool to judge the success of a civilization. This is silly and is an example on why Romney will lose tomorrow..

During one session, Leavitt and others talked about King Benjamin, who in the Book of Mormon encourages people to serve one another. Leavitt said the king's era would be a ``prime one to look at'' when studying the success of civilizations.


Why is anyone so surprised about this? Having lived in Utah this happens all the time. Politics and religion are one and the same in Utah. Look at the liquor laws and the fact you can only buy liquor from state run stores. Mormons/religion have everything to do with that. Utah is run by Mormons so the politics are too. There is no seperation of church and state in Utah.
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_Tidejwe
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Re: Politics mixed with religion in Utah

Post by _Tidejwe »

SUAS wrote:Why is anyone so surprised about this? Having lived in Utah this happens all the time. Politics and religion are one and the same in Utah. Look at the liquor laws and the fact you can only buy liquor from state run stores. Mormons/religion have everything to do with that. Utah is run by Mormons so the politics are too. There is no seperation of church and state in Utah.


Actually, this is a bad conspiracy assumption as a lot of the laws regarding alcohol in Utah were created by non-Mormons. For example, the senator who originally tendered the bills that says "3.2 PBV" and "no more than one serving" was a Catholic. Though it's true that none of the Mormons care if alcohol laws are ridiculous so they simply continue on. It's a mistake to assume that they are all there because it was the Mormons who mixed politics with religion, as non-Mormons played a major role in these laws. Also, if there is some Mormon conspiracy they're doing a bad job at it...I mean there are strip clubs, etc in Provo and Provo, UT supposedly has more hits to Porn than any other city (I'm assuming that's per capita).

Anyway, I read a claim somewhere that there were actually several states that were rated to have stricter laws on alcohol/liquor than Utah did (of course there are others less strict as well). Not sure how true that is, but the guy making the claim is usually pretty good with his facts. Perhaps someone else here knows details on that.

Not that I'm defending the alcohol laws or anything...as I also think they are too strict and should be abolished. I'm simply pointing out that we shouldn't be misleading...
_asbestosman
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Re: Politics mixed with religion in Utah

Post by _asbestosman »

Tidejwe wrote:Brigham Young tells the Legislature in Utah on Jan 23, 1852 to legalize slavery because "we must believe in slavery" because God meant it to be so.

Do you have a reference for that one?
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_Dr. Shades
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Re: Politics mixed with religion in Utah

Post by _Dr. Shades »

Tidejwe wrote:Also, if there is some Mormon conspiracy they're doing a bad job at it...I mean there are strip clubs, etc in Provo . . .


That is untrue.
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_moksha
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Re: Politics mixed with religion in Utah

Post by _moksha »

asbestosman wrote:
Tidejwe wrote:Brigham Young tells the Legislature in Utah on Jan 23, 1852 to legalize slavery because "we must believe in slavery" because God meant it to be so.

Do you have a reference for that one?


A referenced link with the exact quote would be nice.
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_guy sajer
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Re: Politics mixed with religion in Utah

Post by _guy sajer »

Mercury wrote:The transcripts of meetings that took place 11 years ago at the governors mansion reveal a somewhat shocking tidbit. The state government was counse to se the Book of Mormon as a tool to judge the success of a civilization. This is silly and is an example on why Romney will lose tomorrow..

During one session, Leavitt and others talked about King Benjamin, who in the Book of Mormon encourages people to serve one another. Leavitt said the king's era would be a ``prime one to look at'' when studying the success of civilizations.


If he loses he will lose to a guy who will do even more to impose religion on society and policy. I'd take Romney in a nano-second over Huckabee.

By the way, for those who get all hot under the collar for those who will not vote for a rabid EV or fundie for public office, a read a recent poll in which a large majority of the public say they won't vote for an atheist for public office. I assume those of you who like to hoot and holler about religious bigotry feel equally about a-religious bigotry?
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_guy sajer
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Post by _guy sajer »

charity wrote:Anti's are so funny. Conspiracies all over the place. Spooky.


Charity, show me anywhere up to this point in the thread where anyone has suggested any thing remotely related to a conspiracy?

It is perfectly appropriate to introduce this issue here and elsewhere. There are many of us who are quite concerned about maintaining a separation between church and state. It appears to me that Leavitt may have crossed this line, or at least he's straddling it, but I can say this without implying any conspiracy that the Mormon Church is trying to take over Utah politics.

It's you that's hyperventilating here; no one else.
God . . . "who mouths morals to other people and has none himself; who frowns upon crimes, yet commits them all; who created man without invitation, . . . and finally, with altogether divine obtuseness, invites this poor, abused slave to worship him ..."
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