We'll just ask the holy ghost?

[_Sam Harris]

"We'll ask the Holy Ghost"

Hello All,

I'm posting this here, because I'm hoping that perhaps both LDS and non here can provide some insight into this situation, and let me know where I'm off, if I'm off at all.

I went on a trip with an LDS couple who has a 2-and-a-half month old baby this past weekend. What was supposed to be a pleasant Disney trip turned into a nightmare.

Since my health problems haven't really left me, I can't do much past make it to work. I'm blessed to have the job that I do, so I just try to concentrate on that right now. The time will come (hopefully) when I can return to a more normal life.

I had thought that since this couple had a baby, that it would be "safe" for me to go on this trip with them. Having been a nanny, I have some small idea of how life changes when you have a child. I pictured this couple only spending a few hours a day in the parks, and allowing the baby time to rest. Not so.

Firstly, they didn't plan well for this trip at all. They practically exhausted their funds for this trip, feeling that they just had to go because that's where they had their honeymoon, and here they were at their first anniversary. The wife said she prayed about it, and the holy ghost gave her "such a feeling of peace and happiness". Now, she told me this after everything went down, and I couldn't help but feel that she had just psyched herself up for this trip, and the holy ghost had nothing to do with it. When everything was said and done, this couple had no resources to cope with the disaster that hit them, and were on the verge of putting the life of their child in danger, just so they could both enjoy their vacation, and get back home.

At least this is how I feel.

The baby had a cold when we left. I met up with them last Friday night, after having dinner with some friends I hadn't seen in almost 10 years. I had thought I'd be going back to their apartment for some rest before the trip. That wasn't what they had planned. The mother, since the birth of the baby has been obsessed with making sure this child is a genius. She's already contemplating what private schools to send him to. That's ok I guess (I wouldn't be thinking about that right now if it were me), but she's also trying to teach him sign language at 2.5 months old. Any experts in the house, is this feasible? The last experience I had with this, we were trying to wait until the baby was at least 5 months old, and signing to her, not expecting her to sign back. This baby has not a single toy, rather flashcards to look at, the mom is so obsessed with "stimulating his brain". How about letting him look at his fist or a mobile with fascination for a while? (He was enthralled with his fist the other day, it was cute.) According to her, most of his day that he spends with her is taken up doing "exercises" that she thinks will allow him to do complex math at three, and sign ASAP. I guess this wouldn't bother me half as much if I had seen her be as protective of his health and life as she is of his intellect.

We met at the metro, and she and her husband (at first) had to go do sealings in the temple in honor of their anniversary. They wanted me first to take him outside to see the lights on the trees, and then let him look at the Christmas trees in the visitor's center. I nodded my head, but I was not about to take a baby who at the time had a cold out in the cold, and with no snow suit (it made him cry to put it on, so they figured it was best to do without). I let the child look at a few trees (he wasn't all that interested), and then sat down to feed him and keep him comfortable. I didn't think too much about the behavior of the parents at this time. But looking back...

The parents come back about an hour later saying they can do sealings anytime, and then decided that they wanted to watch the Joseph Smith movie playing. I trudged (not too happily, but hey, they had the car) along. Mind you, no thought was given to getting the baby home to bed. He could sleep where he was, this was the attitude of the weekend, apparently. We did not get home until midnight, and the baby hadn't had a real nap in all this time.

Looking back, I find it so strange, the things that the mother felt it important to "protect" her baby from, and yet the huge gaps left open when it came to the more obvious things that this poor child should have been protected from. She took him out of the theater so he wouldn't hear Joseph Smith cry in the movie while getting his bone cut, and when the gunshots were going off (the last one I can kind of understand because of the noise level), but she thought it ok to tote him around like he was a piece of baggage.

Baby was already fussy, sick, and vomiting because he was choking on milk and snot before we left. We flew out of DC before 7am this past saturday morning, arrived in Orlando to pretty good weather. Baby is mild-tempered, doesn't fuss too much, didn't then. The mother just had to get to the Magic Kingdom (this is where they started out on their honeymoon) "ASAP", but it was due to luck that we ended up not going right away. It was decided that a rental car was needed, and it took some time to get that squared away, and meanwhile it was decided to rest a bit. Not that we could, the mother was running around like she was on some sort of stimulant. I wonder if she slept the whole weekend. She seriously had only gotten 2 hours of sleep before everything went down. They packed at the last minute, did everything at the last minute...and were unprepared for what happened.

We left for the parks around 5, met a friend of mine who works for Disney, were in the MK around 7. They just had to see every parade and light show there was. They were good enough about feeding and changing the baby, but you could tell by looking at him (why they couldn't tell, I do not know) that he was uncomfortable, tired, and sick. We didn't leave that park until midnight, and by that time I was sick. I had been sick for two hours, and this couple was completely oblivious. In fact, I think in many ways they were until we got home. Probably still are now. They could have lost their baby. I don't think they realize this.

We got back and I went to bed. I woke up, and family wasn't there. Turns out, baby had gotten a fever of 101, and they had to rush him to the hospital. He ended up having RSV, and was in the hospital until we left on Tuesday.

This is where I got really pissed.

First of all, was it necessary to be out in the open air, around all those people who have hell knows what with an infant until after midnight? Forget the fact that I was about to pass out, but this baby cried every time they touched him, he was so sick. They didn't even know how to hold him properly, and I felt at a loss, because I wanted to show them how (they held him in a way which kept him from sleeping, and in a way that kept his neck at this awful angle. Whenever I took him in my arms, he put his fist in his mouth immediately and went to sleep...but the mother would get this look on her face like I was trying to compete with her for her child...so I would just give him back). When we got back, he was fussy.

I called the husband's cell around 4 am, as it started to dawn on me what might have happened. For the next day, whenever I spoke to them, I could hear him wailing in the background. Poor child, he was on oxygen because he couldn't breathe on his own, it took them 1.5 hours to get an IV in (before the infant IV specialist came in), and baby was just miserable.

Do you know the father came back to me and asked me to essentially "babysit" this poor child IN THE HOSPITAL while he and his wife went to the parks for a few hours? If baby was just fussy and in the hotel room, I might have agreed, but baby's life was on the line, and neither of them seemed to realize this! I told him no, he kept going on about the money they had spent.

Then all sorts of scenarios started to dawn on me, what if baby wasn't released in time to go home, what then? I asked the dad, he said they'd force his release. I asked him to reconsider for the good of the baby...he said, "We'll ask the holy ghost".

WFT? Your idea of the holy ghost, in other words, your overwhelming desire to have what you wanted at the expense of your child got you in this situation! Ask the doctor! I was praying that the doctors would refuse to release that child until they were sure he could safely go home. Because I didn't trust that the parents would transport him to a hospital once they got home. If they were more intent on keeping their vacation...

I didn't see little guy until New Years Day when we left. He gave me a smile, which was promising. He looked better, given all that he'd been through. He's on a nebulizer now, and you should have heard his cry. It was so faint, because he'd cried himself hoarse. I truly felt for him.

But what blew me more than the fact that his parents just carted him around and across the country like a piece of baggage was how they justified the situation. To quote the mother:

"It's a good thing we did come down here. There's no Children's Hospital in Alexandria. Heavenly Father is good". Um, no, there is no Children's in Alexandria, but there is one in the DC area. And from my sad experience of having to see some children I know in hospitals, many facilities that aren't specifically for children still have good children's units. THe mother was going on and on about what they didn't have here in DC, but she didn't stop to think that perhaps, had she just dropped the idea of the trip and concentrated on getting her baby well, he might not have gotten so sick. I was surprised at how this went over her (and her husband's) head. They were so oblivious, "oooh, look at the pretty clouds, want a chocolate?", but their baby was suffering. I couldn't fathom that.

I called a mutual friend to tell him what had happened, and I voiced my concerns. This person has dropped from my friends list, because I have come to realize that what initally attracted him to me was the fact that I was a "spunky, quirky" LDS girl who didn't have problems speaking her mind. Now I'm just a spunky, quirky girl who still doesn't have a problem speaking her mind, and he has progressively been treating me like I'm in wait to harm someone since I left the church. I'm kind of fed up with him. I've todl him time and time again that as a friend I respect where he is spiritually, but he will not give me the same courtesy. He is the only one of the LDS friends that I have who does this...it's like he thinks I'm Jezebel or something. I've chewed him out on more than one occasion over this. But anyways...

He defended everything they did! I have a feeling had they not been LDS, what they did would be unacceptable, but to him, it was ok for them to expose a sick baby to hundreds of thousands of people for long periods of time with no rest, ask for a hospital babysitter so they could go kiss on their anniversary, and then try to press for early release so they wouldn't ahve to pay for an extra plane ticket home.

I tried as gently as I could to explain to the father why it was important for him to be at his son's side while he was in the hospital, and why he didn't want to leave and go to epcot...even for a few hours. I asked the "what ifs", just to try to make them think. I'm sure they think I'm a big bitch, but I really don't care. I told the father that when you have a child, it's no longer about you, it's about that child, and even though you may (and should), as the child grows, have time to enjoy yourself and nurture yourself, you have a responsibility. He rebutted with "well, we have a car, we can get back if need be".

These people are not younger than me (I'm 26). But I felt like I was dealing with two kids.

In the end the wife admitted that they needed to budget and plan for trips better, and that it wasn't wise to have brought the baby (we'll leave him next time...um, ok? No family here, so you leave him with strangers? I can't fathom, I seriously can't...).

I guess I'm blown that they didn't think about these things earlier. I understand that being a new parent is packed with learning experiences, but why would you put an already sick child at risk for more illness just because you thought that the lights of Cinderella's castle would stimulate his brain? And with regards to my friend, is loyalty with regards to religion that strong that you would agree with taking a child off IVs and oxygen just to get on a plane in time, when prior consideration could have possibly kept him off in the first place?

I can't say for sure that keeping him home might have kept the RSV away. But I do know that's potentially lethal for babies. I was so shocked when I found out what had really happened. And I seriously would have called CPS and told them everything had they forced this child to be taken off of his meds and oxygen just to get home. I was about to tell the father to stay put, and call his bishop...I know that in emergency situations, they can write you a check to cover certain expenses, like rent, or medical bills. Of course not too much, and not over a long period, but my first bishop pulled out that option for me years ago when my mom was tripping.

Am I insane, or was this just a bad situation. And for LDS, when faced with a situation where you want to do differently (not necessarily that you feel what is happening is wrong), do you go against conventional wisdom and "ask the holy ghost"? Were the parents right in even thinking about that with regards to their child in this situation?

When it's all said and done, I'm happy he's home where his surroundings are familiar, and hopefully his parents will forget about road trips for a while. I'm happy he's on the way to good health as well. But I was just so bothered by what I saw this weekend.

Thoughts?

[_LCD2YOU]

Sadly, that is not an LDS story. That is a story of any new parents who are completely clueless.

The part of "praying to the Holy Ghost" part is part of anyone group that says they trust in some godhead over common sense. You're correct though. All the couple did was do what they want and psyched themselves into thinking it went the way it was supposed to.

They were in a word "stoopid".

[_Yoda]

GIMR,

First of all, welcome back to the board! :) I've missed you!

My main thought is that these parents are idiots.

Now, we have done a spur of the moment trip to Orlando before...As a matter of fact, we did it shortly after I had my son a few years ago. However, we had the financial means to cover our expenses, and you should have seen everything I packed! LOL

Babies do sleep through a lot of things. I was amazed at how many things we did get to do at Universal Studios, but I also had two teen-aged daughters with me to help, in addition to hubby. And, we didn't try to do a back breaking schedule, either. There were two very nice nursing mother rooms directly in the park. If my son was tired or fussy, we would go there. There were rocking chairs and TV for the kids to watch, so it was quite comfortable.

The issue about wanting to leave the hospital to go to the park is unfathomable to me.

[_Dr. Shades]

I went on a trip with an LDS couple who has a 2-and-a-half month old baby this past weekend. . . They practically exhausted their funds for this trip, feeling that they just had to go because that's where they had their honeymoon, and here they were at their first anniversary.

Lessee. . . Married 12 months, pregnancy 9 months, baby 2 and 1/2 months. . . that's pregnant after only half a month of marriage. Do they know about birth control?

Turns out, baby had gotten a fever of 101, and they had to rush him to the hospital. He ended up having RSV, and was in the hospital until we left on Tuesday.

What does "RSV" stand for?

Thoughts?

Sorry, but your friends are complete idiots.

[_Moniker]

Goodness. Just poor parenting is all that is. I agree with LCD2YOU. They wanted to go and at any expense, even the expense of their child.

Now what did strike me as odd would be the notion of thinking of the positives of following the Holy Ghost (a.k.a. I really, really wanna go hang out at Disney World) and that since they followed the HG that their baby went to a children's hospital. That makes me a bit queasy. But, more to do with poor parenting than anything else I suppose.

[Guest]

Okay, have to say it. Sorry for the snark.

What in the world compels ADULTS to want to go hang out at Disney World? This is unfathomable to me!

-Edited-

I mean, if I'm going to spend money I want to go see something other than the Mouse. Okay. Sorry. Shushing now.

[_Trinity]

Ahhh. How special. A mother who knows!

[_Bond...James Bond]

...and the case for eugenics continues to build.

But seriously...these people are having kids? Jesus H. Christopher Robins wtf?! There should be a maturity test before people are allowed to get married, and the first question should be:

1) If your child is in the hospital should you as a parent:

A) Abandon kid to go to a kiddie theme park
B) Not go to a kiddie theme park and be with your damn child!



(If anyone answers "A"...they should be sterilized).

[_Yoda]

What does "RSV" stand for?

Here are some facts on RSV:

Respiratory syncytial virus (RSV) is the most common cause of bronchiolitis and pneumonia among infants and children under 1 year of age. Illness begins most frequently with fever, runny nose, cough, and sometimes wheezing. During their first RSV infection, between 25% and 40% of infants and young children have signs or symptoms of bronchiolitis or pneumonia, and 0.5% to 2% require hospitalization. Most children recover from illness in 8 to 15 days. The majority of children hospitalized for RSV infection are under 6 months of age. RSV also causes repeated infections throughout life, usually associated with moderate-to-severe cold-like symptoms; however, severe lower respiratory tract disease may occur at any age, especially among the elderly or among those with compromised cardiac, pulmonary, or immune systems.

When I lived in Utah in 1990, it was very common. We were even told not to take our babies outside much during the first two-three months...to wait on baby blessings, etc., because the danger was so high of kids contracting it.

Sorry, but your friends are complete idiots.

Great minds think alike! LOL

[_Yoda]

...and the case for eugenics continues to build.

But seriously...these people are having kids? Jesus H. Christopher Robins wtf?! There should be a maturity test before people are allowed to get married, and the first question should be:

1) If your child is in the hospital should you as a parent:

A) Abandon kid to go to a kiddie theme park
B) Not go to a kiddie theme park and be with your damn child!



(If anyone answers "A"...they should be sterilized).

Bond for President! :)