KimberlyAnn wrote:What sort of God could be the author of such brutality specifically targeted at women?
The same one who thinks it's necessary for His Son to be brutally tortured for a few days so He can forgive our sins instead of just forgiving them outright when we repent?
I hope it wasn't because God was trying to hold women to a higher standard--you know, because they're inherently "more spiritual". Man, if that were the case, then something really scary was going on. I hope God doesn't decide to make tougher laws on those who are BIC, because then I'd require a signed form of consent stating that I would allow Him to make my life that difficult.
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy. eritis sicut dii I support NCMO
Runtu wrote: If it's any consolation, He doesn't seem to like men all that much, either.
No, probably not. But He likes you more than me!
KA
Even my TBM daughter recognizes that. Sigh.
Mine too. She is very bothered by the misogyny through history and seems perplexed at what the LDS Church seems to push as the main role ane purpose for women in this life and the life to come. Many would say she is selfish and a rebellious twit. She was home for Christmas and wanted to discuss this before she came home but the few times I brought it up she said she did not feel like discussing it.
To answer the question, no God is not a misogynist. But men and humans have been and they really are the ones who come up with the rules and so called revelations that put women in their place. Scripture really is tainted by culture if not a direct product of it.
KA wrote:How can anyone defend a God who has such little regard for half of His own human creation?
They can't, or at least, I can't.
My thinking on the matter is that we are not getting the full picture. The Bible has been translated and re-translated. There were many pieces of the Bible that were not included in the King James Version that we have today. The Bible was compiled by MEN. Men decided what would be part of the Bible and what wouldn't.
During Jesus' ministry, women had a very active role in the Church. His apostles didn't like it. They wanted the patriarchy. They did not have the progressive view of women that Jesus had.
Is it any surprise that after he died that they wanted the patriarchy to remain?
As far as the D&C goes, I don't believe that God actually gave that revelation. I think that was Joseph trying to spin things to his best interest.
You are right, though. The God that is currently described is not a God that I can respect or worship. I just have faith and hope that there is a lot we don't know.
I believe had Joseph Smith survived women would have the priesthood. He seemed to be laying the foundation for that with the Relief Society and with what women did and do in the temple. It is interesting that Rigdon's successor Church gave women the priesthood as does the RLDS, though I am not sure when that happened. But Brigham put and end to the Relief Society in Nauvoo and did not allow it Old Testament function until about 15 years later and then in a much more limited capacity. I think this is what ended the chance for the time for women getting the priesthood. Interestingly I know of no revelation prohibiting it for women or giving it just to men.
RenegadeOfPhunk wrote:Maybe there are examples in the Gospels that I'm overlooking, but I think generally you can see that Jesus really was ahead of his time morally. It's just that his followers couldn't quite keep up. They still had 'Old Testament God' on the brain to some extent. At least that's what I believe...
Perhaps you're right, Ren.
It's next to impossible for me to reconcile the gentle Rabbi who spoke kindly to the adulterous Samaritan woman at Jacob's well with the vengeful, misogynist God of the Old Testament. Personally, I do not believe Paul was representing his Lord, whom he met on the road to Damascus, when he made his patriarchal, sexist statements regarding women.
Scriptures are virtually always a reflection of the men who write them. :-(
I feel quite certain that any God of this universe would not be like the average nomadic tribal power hungry man who lived a few thousand years ago on this earth.
I feel equally certain that any God of this universe would not, in any way be similar to Joseph Smith, BY, Moses, Abraham, or any other man who thinks they speak for God.
Finally, I feel totally certain that any God of this Universe would not approve of treating women as ANY of the scripture writing men who claim they know God, hear his voice, or speak for "him".
Is God a misogynist? No.
Are the men who wrote scripture? No question about it!
;-)
~dancer~
"The search for reality is the most dangerous of all undertakings for it destroys the world in which you live." Nisargadatta Maharaj
I just read a book with about a dozen old church talks regardign the divine nature of women and their role in the Plan of Salvation. I'll see if I can find a few to post. Every one I read was great.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
I find that I disagree with much of what you presented in the OP, except for the Old Testament. I don't think God is a misogynist, I think the writers of the Old Testament were as well as the culture that they wrote from.
I disagree with your assessment of Paul. There are NUMEROUS (not yelling, to lazy to bold) passages in the New Testament attributed to Paul that demonstrate just the opposite of your take on him. I will be glad to list them here if you'd like.
So far as I can tell, women were prohibited from *teaching* in church and there were cultural reasons to justify that. I see nothing that prohibits them from praying, prophesying, and there were women who infact acted as pastors of the early church.
Jason wrote:I believe had Joseph Smith survived women would have the priesthood. He seemed to be laying the foundation for that with the Relief Society and with what women did and do in the temple. It is interesting that Rigdon's successor Church gave women the priesthood as does the RLDS, though I am not sure when that happened. But Brigham put and end to the Relief Society in Nauvoo and did not allow it Old Testament function until about 15 years later and then in a much more limited capacity. I think this is what ended the chance for the time for women getting the priesthood. Interestingly I know of no revelation prohibiting it for women or giving it just to men.
I agree that Joseph was leaning toward giving women the priesthood and Brigham Young put a stop to it when he became President of the Church. Interesting stuff about Rigdon's Church and the RLDS. I was not aware of that.
I find that I disagree with much of what you presented in the OP, except for the Old Testament. I don't think God is a misogynist, I think the writers of the Old Testament were as well as the culture that they wrote from.
I disagree with your assessment of Paul. There are NUMEROUS (not yelling, to lazy to bold) passages in the New Testament attributed to Paul that demonstrate just the opposite of your take on him. I will be glad to list them here if you'd like.
So far as I can tell, women were prohibited from *teaching* in church and there were cultural reasons to justify that. I see nothing that prohibits them from praying, prophesying, and there were women who infact acted as pastors of the early church.
I'll go dig up a ref for you.
Jersey Girl
Jersey Girl
Why does the SBC still prohibit women from pastoring church's. Calvary chapel as well.