Charity's view of how a prophet receives revelation

[_truth dancer]

So... I guess this means Nehor is hearing voices from another source! ;-)

And of course all those folks who felt inspired to find their keys were actually getting help from Satan...

Or did they just ask if their keys were hiding under the couch cushion and the HG said, "yes"?

And those folks who thought they were receiving inspiration warning them of danger were just imagining it all.

And the man who bore his testimony in my ward telling members how the HG witnessed to him that the wars in the Book of Mormon actually happened and millions of Nephites died in NY, well he didn't know how to discern the spirit from wishful thinking.

And of course Saul... well I do not recall him asking anything so maybe angels can give information without the proper question being asked! :-)

~dancer~

[_Jersey Girl]

The following is a list of scriptural passages which indicate that the need to ASK.

D&C 8: 1
1 Oliver Cowdery, verily, verily, I say unto you, that assuredly as the Lord liveth, who is your God and your Redeemer, even so surely shall you receive a knowledge of whatsoever things you shall ask in faith

D&C 14: 5
5 Therefore, if you will ask of me you shall receive; if you will knock it shall be opened unto you.


D&C 42: 3 For verily I say, as ye have assembled yourselves together according to the commandment wherewith I commanded you, and are agreed as touching this one thing, and have asked the Father in my name, even so ye shall receive.

D&C 42: 61 If thou shalt ask, thou shalt receive revelation upon revelation, bknowledge upon knowledge, that thou mayest know the cmysteries and dpeaceable things—that which bringeth ejoy, that which bringeth life eternal.

D&C 103: 31 Behold this is my will; ask and ye shall receive; but men do anot always do my will.

1 Ne. 15: Do ye not remember the things which the Lord hath said?—If ye will not harden your hearts, and ask me in bfaith, believing that ye shall receive, with diligence in keeping my commandments, surely these things shall be made known unto you.

3 Ne. 16: 4
4 And I command you that ye shall awrite these sayings after I am gone, that if it so be that my people at Jerusalem, they who have seen me and been with me in my ministry, do not ask the Father in my name, that they may receive a knowledge of you by the Holy Ghost, and also of the other tribes whom they know not of, that these sayings which ye shall write shall be kept and shall be manifested unto the bGentiles, that through the fulness of the Gentiles, the remnant of their seed, who shall be scattered forth upon the face of the earth because of their cunbelief, may be brought in, or may be brought to a dknowledge of me, their Redeemer.

Moro. 10: 4
4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having eaith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

D&C 18: Ask the Father in my name, in faith believing that you shall receive, and you shall have the Holy Ghost, which manifesteth all things which are expedient unto the children of men.


And then of course there is this one:

Doctrine and Covenants 9: 7-8 Behold, you have not understood; you have supposed that I would give it unto you, when you took no thought save it was to ask me. But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right.

Oh, yes. Joseph wasn't just taking a walk through the trees and God hit him with a lightning bolt. Joseph was ASKING.


And for the crude among you, Joseph was ASKING about plural marriage in the Old Testament when he was given the answer. Just shows you better be careful what you ask about.

How do you explain Saul/Paul's Damascus event?

[_Blixa]

Sometimes it starts with the BYU athletic director going to the prophet and then the prophet going to God as was the case around 1977 or so.

Hahaha!!!

[_Gadianton]

And Saul was "asking" while on the road to Damascus, right?

[_Gadianton]

charity = affirming the consequence.

[_Mister Scratch]

Sometimes it starts with the BYU athletic director going to the prophet and then the prophet going to God as was the case around 1977 or so.

Hahaha!!!

Actually, I have heard at least one account from someone that this is exactly what happened. (Supposedly, this was even reported in an issue of Church News.) The story goes that SWK actually asked permission of HF to lift the ban. I wonder if Charity feels comfortable with this little historical twist.

[_Sethbag]

Charity, you are the first member in all my years in the church who has claimed that the Lord can or will only reveal the answer to questions put to him by the Prophet. You've explicitly stated that the Lord can or will not reveal something to the Prophet unless the Prophet asks about it. That is a first - no LDS I know, outside of you, has claimed that, at least that I know about.

As Guy mentioned, the scriptures you quoted all say that the Lord can or will answer questions asked of him by the Prophet, but do not say, hint, imply, or in any other way lead one to believe that this is the only way revelation will be received by the Prophet. I would suggest that yours is an idiosyncratic interpretation which just happens to be well suited to apologetic defense. Can this be a coincidence? I am having trouble accepting that.

Your idiosyncratic explanation allows an apologist to explain away a whole host of things that critics would say the Prophet out to know or have known, by merely suggesting that the Prophet didn't think to ask, and the Lord, Heaven forbid, wasn't going to tell him otherwise. Most egregiously, it allows you to rationalize how Joseph Smith and his successors could hold onto ideas that were in error for so long, but simply stating that the Lord could not/would not tell them that they were wrong unless they asked about it, and they apparently hadn't asked.

I see why you like this idea, but I don't think it's justified by LDS doctrine or scripture. Find me the TBMs who will agree with you that the Lord cannot, or will not, simply appear to the Prophet one day and reveal something to him because he needs to know it, whether he knew he needed to know it or not.

[_truth dancer]

Of course this idea is nonsense.

Just read the D&C... Joseph Smith is getting revelations all over the place where there is no evidence of a specific question and a yes or no answer.

Did Joseph Smith ask if Emma would be destroyed if she did not go along with his affairs with her household help and best friends? Did he ask if varoius men should go on missions so he could get their wives? Did BY ask if God was really Adam and get a "yes"? Did he ask if his translations were correct?

This idea is just silliness... seriously!

~dancer~

Just to be clear, I have heard that if one asks a question in prayer the HG will confirm with the burning in the bosom, or one will get a stupor of thought, however I have never heard that the HG is limited to this process.

[_Pokatator]

It seems to me that Charity's view of revelation limits God's ability to respond or rule His creation.

[_Coggins7]

Actually, I have heard at least one account from someone that this is exactly what happened. (Supposedly, this was even reported in an issue of Church News.) The story goes that SWK actually asked permission of HF to lift the ban. I wonder if Charity feels comfortable with this little historical twist.

Oh goody, more STORIES!!!