TA DA!!! My Book of Mormon in Mesoamerica website

[_beastie]

Yes, Sorenson replied to me via DCP. He stated that the question about the source he had so abused was nothing but a "tempest in a teapot". I will never forget it. It was unbelievable - he was making claims that contradicted the assertions of every other Mesoamerican scholar - that there is evidence that Mesoamericans practiced metallurgy during the Book of Mormon time period - and the source he used for that claim actually said nothing of the sort. He then claimed that the actual source was a phone conversation with someone who worked with Linne, whose name he could no longer remember and who is now dead.

I also believe that this type of flagrant, incompetent error occurred due to the fact that the FARMers don't bother fact checking each other. As has been pointed out before, they tend to refer to each other, making an endless circle, and no one in the circle is skeptical enough to bother checking out the previous assertions.

Here's the FAIR thread link:

http://www.mormonapologetics.org/index. ... topic=8349

[_aussieguy55]

Hello, the link does not work.

[_beastie]

You have to copy and paste the MAD link because they won't let you link there directly from here.

[_Gadianton]

It's so funny how all the attention is drawn to "honesty" which I admit is important. But the justifications were, "No, really, I did hear this somewhere, I wasn't just making it up!" without consideration that admitting this might buy a level of basic honesty as opposed to JS-style wholecloth fabrication. But it's just screaming, "I'm an honest researcher! And honestly bad one, but still honest!"

It's nearly like, let's say I'm writing a history of some county, anywhere USA. I have a phone conversation with a forest ranger who claims to have seen Big Foot roaming around. I then, credulously, put a footnote in one of the chapters stating the Big Foot was sighted by so-and-so on such-and-such date.

[_beastie]

"I'm an honest researcher! And honestly bad one, but still honest!"

LOL!!

[_truth dancer]

Yes, Sorenson replied to me via DCP. He stated that the question about the source he had so abused was nothing but a "tempest in a teapot". I will never forget it. It was unbelievable - he was making claims that contradicted the assertions of every other Mesoamerican scholar - that there is evidence that Mesoamericans practiced metallurgy during the Book of Mormon time period - and the source he used for that claim actually said nothing of the sort. He then claimed that the actual source was a phone conversation with someone who worked with Linne, whose name he could no longer remember and who is now dead.

I too well remember the unbelievable discussion on FAIR.

It is one I hope gets linked or discussed on your new site Beastie! ;-)

It is important not just for the information discussed but it gives a glimpse into how some apologists use data.

~dancer~

[_Ray A]

Actually I don't have to do anything of the sort. Let me ask you this: Do you think the book "Chariots of the Gods" is worth the pulp it was printed on?

Von Daniken was full of speculation. Von Daniken doesn't prove, or disprove, that at some point extra-terrestrials did, or didn't, visit earth. I refer you to Timothy Good for some more substance on this subject. A closed mind is never healthy. So what are you trying to get at, that Warren has been a long time and internationally respected UFO researcher? Have you ever heard of getting at the facts?

See I did read Warren's BOOK. It was not a paper on the subject. It was a collection of his wish list that he wants to see for the Book of Mormon. He has suppositions, not evidence in his book. Why do I dismiss it so easily?

In science, real scientists write books for the interested AFTER they write the highly technical papers on the subject. Stephen Hawkings, the late Stephen Gould and others did just that. Other books written for "science" are written explaining current theory for non-theorists who are still interested. Warren is going against the grain. He wrote a book instead of writing a paper. Why? See papers in science are subject to rigorous scrutiny. Scrutiny that I think Warren knows he won't survive.

Warren wrote several preliminary papers open for criticism. You also have to bear in mind that the Astons' work overwrote that of the Hiltons'. You can read some reviews from that Nazi pseudo-science journal, the FARMS Review: http://farms.BYU.edu/publications/search.php


And you can answer Warren's obnoxious points here: http://maxwellinstitute.BYU.edu/viewaut ... thorID=128 (Don't forget to tell him his brain is that of a five year old.)

But he's an apologist.

And, perhaps, a Satanist. Why else would he be so devious?

He wants to make others feel good about the lack anything that points to the Book of Mormon being a real book. So he writes a book for the ones who want to believe. The troo believers[sup]tm[/sup] will suck that up. He rants about how "some just don't want to see the truth" which plays right into the audience he has targeted.

Hitler would be jealous.

So Ray A., no. You want to present Warren's book as "evidence", you bring it up. Again, it is not for anyone to "dis-prove" but the believer to "prove" (although proofs are only in math - real science uses evidence) the book. Show or present Warren's "evidence" in the CF. Remember, a lot of his pictures are really bereft of anything like context.

The whole book is bereft of anything like context. Warren is positively evil. He did say he studied Gobbels, Attila the Hun, and Charles Manson. This may have influenced his "scholarship". I'm not sure, but I think we should seriously consider this possibility.

Now back to "Chariots of the Gods". Do you think it is correct? If not are you going to "dis-prove" it or do you think it is up to someone to "show the evidence is real"?

I studied lots of theories about extra-terrestrials, but I was on medication at the time. Now that I'm on McDonald's, I could possibly think more clearly. I like the Homestyle burger. You?

[_Ray A]

Oh, one more thing, LCD. You are right. I justify you in leaving Mormonism. You have my Amen! The Church is corrupt. FARMS is corrupt. Anything Mormon is corrupt. They are in league with the KKK, the Gestapo, the KGB, communist Cuba (add anything evil that takes your fancy). Idi Amin? Or is he too docile? Perhaps. We should not give them so much hope.

You are not biased at all. I am thankful for truth-seekers like you! Now I know why I came on MDB. All my illusions have now dispersed! What in hell would I do without truth-seekers like you. Good God, I can now finally have a bloody life!

Do you have a Pay Pal account I can donate to?

[_Ray A]

Oh, I forgot, LCD, I heard that there are Mormon connections to Jonestown, The Inquisition, and even Masada! Now that would be worth some re-se-ar-ch. I think you should "dig" some more. I'm bewitched by your insights. And you know what? The thing I like most about you is that you're so objective. I am just in awe of your scholarship.

[_CaliforniaKid]

Beastie,

I was going through some of my old MADB posts and found this:

In response to my inquiry to the Milwaukee Public Museum regarding the horse skull that was found in the Spencer Lake, OH Indian burial mound, I received the following response. I intend to have copies of the articles here referenced sent to me, and can scan and post them at a later date if further corroboration is required.

-------------------------------------

Chris--

Dawn forwarded your email to me. I'd done work on the Spencer Lake horse skull, and wanted to fill you in.

Spencer Lake mound, in northern Wisconsin, was excavated in the 1930s by crews
from MPM and the University of Wisconsin. A horse skull was found in one of the
mounds, but before publication of the results a prankster claimed to having
planted the skull in the mound during an earlier period. There was always some
controversy over whether the skull was genuine or not, and a few years ago I was
approached by a group studying pre-Columbian horses to have the skull dated. I
reviewed the evidence, and published the results of my analysis in Lore, the
Museum's magazine, prior to submitting new samples from the skull for dating
using AMS, an advanced form of radiocarbon dating that can use small sample
amounts. I concluded that the skull was a hoax based on the archaeological
evidence. I then submitted blind samples to two labs for dating.

The dates were run separately by the two independent labs, and both returned
modern dates on the skull. The results of the dating have been published in an
article appearing in a volume on the use of older collections for research
published by the Society for American Archaeology press. Let me know a
preferred mailing address and I'd be happy to send you copies of both articles.

Hope this helps.

Best,

Alec

http://www.mormonapologetics.org/index. ... =17029&hl=

I sent this fellow my mailing address but never got copies of the articles. I could probably dig up his email address if you wanted to follow this up. Otherwise, you're plenty welcome to make use of the email on your website.

-Chris