"The Dark Road to Apostasy"

[_charity]

And this is not about GBH. It is about all the leadership (and the membership). The majority of them don't know "what we teach".

In Hungary, I know ward leaders who
- - didn't read the whole Book of Mormon
- - didn't read more than a few verse from the D&C
- - didn't read anything from PoGP
- - don't know what is the 1th and 2nd "Official Declaration" are all about
- - what is the name of Jared's brother (by the way, do You know?)

And I didn't mention the common members, only the leaders. Is Hungary a peripherial part of the Mormon world? I have the very same type of experience in Germany.

HUngary isn't a "peripheral" part of the LDS membership. But it is an immature area, due to the domination of the communists over the years. These are some Hungary stats from The Cumorah Proejct.

LDS Membership: 4147. (#67 out of 245 countries.)
Approx. LDS Activity Rate: 28%
Approx. Active Members: 1161
Missions: 1 (#36 out of 245 countries.)
Temples: 0
Stakes: 0
Districts: 2 (#38 out of 245 countries.)
Wards: 0
Branches: 19
Total Church Units: 19 (#58 out of 245 countries.)
Average members per unit: 218
Average active members per unit: 61

To compare here are the US stats.

Religion
LDS Membership: 5690672. (#1 out of 245 countries.)
Approx. LDS Activity Rate: 40%
Approx. Active Members: 2276268
Missions: 106 (#1 out of 245 countries.)
Temples: 62 (#1 out of 245 countries.)
Stakes: 1390 (#1 out of 245 countries.)
Districts: 13 (#10 out of 245 countries.)
Wards: 10778
Branches: 1975
Total Church Units: 12753 (#1 out of 245 countries.)
Average members per unit: 446
Average active members per unit: 178

It is really hard at first to get strong leadership. There is just not the strength of a long tradition.

[_ludwigm]

...
In Hungary, I know ward leaders who
- - don't ...

HUngary isn't a "peripheral" part of the LDS membership. But it is an immature area, due to the domination of the communists over the years. These are some Hungary stats from The Cumorah Proejct.
... (data copied from that page) ...
It is really hard at first to get strong leadership. There is just not the strength of a long tradition.

The data on the "Cumorah" is obsolete (if I want to be courteous). Those data are of 2002, projected (turboed) to 2006. For example here is a stake since 2005.
On the"Cumorah" page there are numbers ("Projected growth at current growth rate (from last four years' average)") which are interesting. http://www.cumorah.com/cgi-bin/db.cgi?v ... ry=Hungary
I remember when the splitting of the branches was a big step forward. Last year, uniting the wards splitted before was a bigger step forward.

Does the "strong leadership" mean "capable" one?

by the way Thank You for the epithet "immature" in the name of other hungarians.

[_Moniker]

...

HUngary isn't a "peripheral" part of the LDS membership. But it is an immature area, due to the domination of the communists over the years.

by the way Thank You for the epithet "immature" in the name of other hungarians.

What does "immature" mean used in this context? Is that a way in which LDS describe an area that is not religious in nature?

[_Yoda]

...

HUngary isn't a "peripheral" part of the LDS membership. But it is an immature area, due to the domination of the communists over the years.

by the way Thank You for the epithet "immature" in the name of other hungarians.

What does "immature" mean used in this context? Is that a way in which LDS describe an area that is not religious in nature?

I don't think that Charity meant "immature" in a negative context. I think maybe a better adjective to describe what she was trying to say was "young" or "not as developed".

[_Abinadi's Fire]

I just returned from a trip to Hungary (ate guylas at the Karpathia, ludwig!). Budapest, at least, seemed far from "young" to me, and no less developed, industrially or otherwise, than say Lincoln, Nebraska.

I understood charity's comments to mean that the country is immature because it has not been proselytized by LDS as much as other countries, and is therefore "immature" in that sense.

As an aside, in Budapest there is a church in which there is a mummified hand of the first christian king of Hungary, Istvan. I went to see it, out of morbid curiousity.

Creepy.

[_Moniker]

...

HUngary isn't a "peripheral" part of the LDS membership. But it is an immature area, due to the domination of the communists over the years.

by the way Thank You for the epithet "immature" in the name of other hungarians.

What does "immature" mean used in this context? Is that a way in which LDS describe an area that is not religious in nature?

I don't think that Charity meant "immature" in a negative context. I think maybe a better adjective to describe what she was trying to say was "young" or "not as developed".

Yah, I wasn't thinking that she meant it negatively. I just didn't really know what she meant when she used the term.

[_Moniker]

I just returned from a trip to Hungary (ate guylas at the Karpathia, ludwig!). Budapest, at least, seemed far from "young" to me, and no less developed, industrially or otherwise, than say Lincoln, Nebraska.

I understood charity's comments to mean that the country is immature because it has not been proselytized by LDS as much as other countries, and is therefore "immature" in that sense.

As an aside, in Budapest there is a church in which there is a mummified hand of the first christian king of Hungary, Istvan. I went to see it, out of morbid curiousity.

Creepy.

Fire, I sort of read it the same way. Or perhaps the populace is not as open to the message because of atheist tendencies left over from Communism? Anywhoha, ludwigm seemed to take offense so I wanted to make certain I was understanding the context and intent.

ooooo the mummified hand sounds cool! So jealous!

[_neworder]

Many educated LDS become disaffected and it seems that most of the current converts come from less educated stock these days.

I agree with you on this. On my mission in California, there were very few (if any) people that joined the church that were highly educated. We talked to and taught many highly educated people, but the conversion rate was about zero.

It seems that most of those (not all) that are highly educated that are Mormons, are those that were born and raised as active LDS. If Higher Education and Mormonism went hand in hand with each other, you would see a lot more highly educated people join the church than you do now. It is very rare that you see a highly Educated person join the LDS Church or convert to any religion for that matter. I don't know the ratios, but I am sure they are the same as any other man made religion. You would think that God would lead more of those "deep thinkers & truth seekers" to the one and other true church upon the face of the whole earth.

This may also be the reason why you see so many people joining the LDS church in uneducated countries compared to those countries where education is a bigger priority.

[_solomarineris]

We believe in opposition in all things.

Sure you do, charity, so much so that you and some more LDS faithful (like Nehor?) have no qualms about taking punches
these filthy apostates trow at your way. (I respect that)

However I can't say the same things about MADD operators. Obviously they cannot tolerate un-believers like us.
What they do? jettison us in a cowardly manner to have more faith promoting board, (which I really can respect their decision).
If they want to have a sanitized MADD board, they should have it.
Juliann started the purge with DCP's aid. Actually I did immensely enjoyed participating in their conversations. It was just priceless!
You couldn't find such intellectual dwarves even if you'd pay top dollar!

[_Sethbag]

- - what is the name of Jared's brother (by the way, do You know?)

The Subway spokesperson?

No...the jeweler.

I can see how you could make this mistake (given his last name), but it isn't "the jeweler." In reality, it is Jared Mason Diamond.

Is that the full name of Jared "Guns, Germs, and Steel" Diamond? Great book, by the way. It was one of the last books I read as a believer.