SUAS wrote: So the tithing of hard working members in places thousands of miles from SLC is used not to bring forth the three fold mission of the church, but to beautify downtown SLC. Uh huh. That is not God-breathed. That is man-made.
Did you miss the part abouit NO tithing funds used for the mall project? Or do you just not want to believe that? It is really hard to keep up the anti-Mormon line if you have to acknowledge the facts.
And you can prove this allegation how? The books are closed, remember? There is no way for you to prove no tithing funds were used. All you have is their word. And they've lied before.
SUAS wrote: So the tithing of hard working members in places thousands of miles from SLC is used not to bring forth the three fold mission of the church, but to beautify downtown SLC. Uh huh. That is not God-breathed. That is man-made.
Did you miss the part abouit NO tithing funds used for the mall project? Or do you just not want to believe that? It is really hard to keep up the anti-Mormon line if you have to acknowledge the facts.
And you can prove this allegation how? The books are closed, remember? There is no way for you to prove no tithing funds were used. All you have is their word. And they've lied before.
I don't have to prove it. You have to prove they are using tithing funds.
When you are at your ward conference, and they ask for a sustaining vote on the sustaining the prophet and the other general authorities, you raise you arm to sustain? Do you vote that you are opposed? Or do you suddenly findyourself having to pretend that you are looking through your purse for something and didn't "notice" the vote? I keep being asked how I can believe such and such, so this is a fair question. If you believe they are liars, how can you vote to sustain them? And how can you not raise your hand in opposition.
Moniker wrote:If the Church belongs to the Lord what would He desire the Church to do? If the Church is to glorify God then how better way to praise God than through helping his other children?
Does the LDS Church not do charitable works? My understanding was that the LDS Church was well known for helping their fellow man. That would, appear to me, something that was done to live the gospel of Christ.
The church helps the poor. The government also helps the poor. The government has many other responsibilities. The church also has many other responsibilities. It would be ideal if most of the aid to poor came from individual members so they could benefit from being givers. The church as a whole needs to be most concerned with things like proclaiming the gospel, redeeming the dead, and perfecting the saints.
What are you talking about? The memberships pays tithing, which most of them expect that a good portion of that will go to help those less fortunate. Not import wood and stone for an already beautiful temple.
Most paying a full tithe are barely making ends meet as it is. Now you expect that they should go and help the poor on top of tithing?
If there's one thing I've learned from this board, it's that consensual sex with multiple partners is okay unless God commands it. - Abman
I find this place to be hostile toward all brands of stupidity. That's why I like it. - Some Schmo
Scottie wrote:What are you talking about? The memberships pays tithing, which most of them expect that a good portion of that will go to help those less fortunate. Not import wood and stone for an already beautiful temple.
I'm not sure that's what they think or not. My understanding is that fast offerings are used more for the less fortunate while tithing is primarily used for the three-fold mission of the church. I don't know who sees things differently or why thy would.
Most paying a full tithe are barely making ends meet as it is. Now you expect that they should go and help the poor on top of tithing?
Yes. I think that is precisely what the Lord expects of us. He wants US to do good in person, not to simply write a check.
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy. eritis sicut dii I support NCMO
Moniker wrote:If the Church belongs to the Lord what would He desire the Church to do? If the Church is to glorify God then how better way to praise God than through helping his other children?
Does the LDS Church not do charitable works? My understanding was that the LDS Church was well known for helping their fellow man. That would, appear to me, something that was done to live the gospel of Christ.
The church helps the poor. The government also helps the poor. The government has many other responsibilities. The church also has many other responsibilities. It would be ideal if most of the aid to poor came from individual members so they could benefit from being givers. The church as a whole needs to be most concerned with things like proclaiming the gospel, redeeming the dead, and perfecting the saints.
What are you talking about? The memberships pays tithing, which most of them expect that a good portion of that will go to help those less fortunate. Not import wood and stone for an already beautiful temple.
Most paying a full tithe are barely making ends meet as it is. Now you expect that they should go and help the poor on top of tithing?
Sure, and we do. We take in meals to families who needs them. We go and serve in shelter kitchens, we work on humanitarian aid projects, we make quilts for families who needs them, we contribute money in special circumstances. I think the Church said that members, over and above tithing, contributed over a million dollars to Katrina aid. We work on church farms, and in church canneries, and in volunteer positions in church employment. We support Salvation Army and REd Cross and . . . the list goes on and on.
And what do members expect about their tithing? We expect temples. Beautiful buildings built to the Lord.
charity wrote:And what do members expect about their tithing? We expect temples. Beautiful buildings built to the Lord.
How many?
"Whatever appears to be against the Book of Mormon is going to be overturned at some time in the future. So we can be pretty open minded."-charity 3/7/07
SUAS wrote:Yeah we want to keep downtown SLC looking nice. Probably no homeless people wondering around down there.
Riiiggghhht. Except of course there will probably always be panhandlers by Temple Square--ritzy or not.
If I understand the intentions, it would be to make the area less attractive to, say, drug dealers who I gather tend to prefer run-down areas.
Buildings are more important than/then the poor?
I dunno. Do you mind the government spending money on buildings such as courtrooms, schools, military buildings, etc.? Are they more important than the poor? I mean, what does the poor care that people are getting an education when they're starving? What do the poor care that I have a roof over my head when they think it's lucky if the cops will leave them alone for sitting under a bridge? Are freeways more important than the poor?
Hi abman. Equating the government with a Church seemed a bit odd to me. The government has many purposes in which to serve everyone. Am I to understand that you're suggesting that the work the Church does is seen as benefiting all humanity? The work of building up the Church is the essential purpose? For the afterlife and not so much on the here and now?
I understand that people organize and do GREAT deeds and charitable works through their Church, yet when buildings and human made constructs are more important then humans themselves it is unsettling to me. Why is this? My focus is on the lives that are in existence at this moment with the thought that there is only one chance to help a person -- and it is now. The LDS Church (as are all) is focused on saving lives for the afterlife. Would that be a fair statement? As someone that sees such suffering currently in the world I recoil from the idea of lavish buildings made to praise God when I see humanity as what needs to be praised.
I respond to Christ's message as it deals with humanity, not that which is found in his death and resurrection which I do not accept. So, perhaps I need to recall that the work of the Church is essentially that which pertains to what I reject. I forget that, at times.
I liked the video link from the initial Rexburg news story. The town burghers are looking forward to making a buck off the temple goers, and the non-business townies are worrying about the increased traffic.
No need to worry about it being too ostentatious, if Jesus does visit in person, he will probably spend his time on the other side of the Rexburg tracks.
charity wrote:And what do members expect about their tithing? We expect temples. Beautiful buildings built to the Lord.
Do you really think God expects beautiful buildings?
A couple of things come to mind on this thread:
1 - I do not ever again want to hear a church member complain about the decadence of catholic cathedrals and churches and how gauche and gaudy they are.
2- We are taught that our bodies are temples and we should keep them clean to be worthy of God's spirit. I wish people would spend tithing money on getting the bodies of the church membership in shape. That would be much more delightsome than some imported tile.
"I think one of the great mysteries of the gospel is that anyone still believes it." Sethbag, MADB, Feb 22 2008
Moniker wrote:Hi abman. Equating the government with a Church seemed a bit odd to me. The government has many purposes in which to serve everyone. Am I to understand that you're suggesting that the work the Church does is seen as benefiting all humanity? The work of building up the Church is the essential purpose? For the afterlife and not so much on the here and now?
I understand that people organize and do GREAT deeds and charitable works through their Church, yet when buildings and human made constructs are more important then humans themselves it is unsettling to me. Why is this? My focus is on the lives that are in existence at this moment with the thought that there is only one chance to help a person -- and it is now. The LDS Church (as are all) is focused on saving lives for the afterlife. Would that be a fair statement? As someone that sees such suffering currently in the world I recoil from the idea of lavish buildings made to praise God when I see humanity as what needs to be praised.
I respond to Christ's message as it deals with humanity, not that which is found in his death and resurrection which I do not accept. So, perhaps I need to recall that the work of the Church is essentially that which pertains to what I reject. I forget that, at times.
Yes, the afterlife is far more important in the big scheme of things from the church's POV. That said, the church does believe that our eternal salvation depends on serving the poor because in so doing we serve God. Thus serving the poor is a secondary goal even though it is vital for salvation. However, the church cannot neglect the other duties. I think it quite possible that nice church buildings help the church's mission by impressing upon our minds just how important the next life is. Is it worth X meals for the poor? Well, obviously not if there is no afterlife. I've often thought, though, that God could snap his fingers and feed the poor or build a temple. I think there's a reason He doesn't do either (and no, I don't think it's because He doesn't exist ;) ).
That's General Leo. He could be my friend if he weren't my enemy. eritis sicut dii I support NCMO