You are confusing Astronomy, the science of the stars, and Astrollogy
I'm confusing no such thing and I have said nothing about stars. You simply don't know what you're talking about when you say Muslims gave us astronomy because astronomy clearly predates Islam.
Astronomy is one of the
oldest sciences.
The obliquity of the ecliptic was calculated by the Chinese roughly 1000 B.C., a good 1700 years before Islam. Around 1200 years before Islam, the Babylonian astronomers came up with the saros cycle which enables us to calculate future solar and lunar eclipses. About 800 years before Islam, the Greek astronomer Hipparchus estimated the size and distance of the moon. None of this is "astrology"as you prefer to have it. This is astronomy in every sense of the word. So no, I'm not the one confused here.
Further, according to the wikipedia, "the invention of the telescope was required before astronomy was able to develop into a modern science."And to whom can we offer credit for this? Well, certainly not the Muslims. The first telescopes given to us by 17th century European astronomers, opening the doorway to astronomy.
Many did but had roots in Islamic scholars who kept the tradition of learning going.
Tradition of learning?? You sound so ridiculous. You're left with making unsupportable generalities now. You can't name specifics and are still left with your ridiculously embarrassing statement above that Islam gave us astronomy!!
This is so unlike Christian scholars in which everything could be described as "With God" or "With Satan".
Your ignorant spite towards Christainity isn't going to change the fact that history flies in the face of your argument. How is it that so many Christians were instrumental in scientific progress and so few Muslims were involved in anything scientific, after the 13th century? Were all of these Christians tarred, feathered and burned at the stake? Some of these men were ministers for crying out loud!
And which one of those peopel went into house arrest for his "heretical" stance.
I just named you a slew of Christian names who were the founding fathers of modern sciences, and all you can do is bob and weave and give me this gibberish about how the Catholic Church wanted to burn them all because it is strictly based on the Bible and all else must be burned. You obviously prefer myth to fact. Realizing his positions, Galileo's strongest supporter was
still the Pope, and he wanted arguments on both sides to be explicated.
Moreover, Galileo's entire purpose of his trip to Rome in 1615 to meet with Cardinal Bellarmine, was to convince the Church not to take an official position regarding astronomy. It had nothing to do with fighting a cause for truth. The Church never rejected Galileo because he was anti-biblical, possessed by demons or whatever. In fact, Galileo was trying to argue that his views were actually in tune with a proper understanding of scripture. He was Christian through and through. Church authorities agreed with him on the basic premise that truth should be revealed through experimentation and rational argument. According to Stillman Drake, the problem was with his contemporary academians, whose influences weighed heavily. They simply didn't have the background to understand the mathematics behind Galileo's arguments and were stuck in their own presuppositions about what could and couldn't be true. In fact, during the previous year Florentine and Pisan philosophers had rallied against Galileo because he had been making them look foolish on so many issues. So a conspiracy was then hatched. They are the ones responsible for finally finding a priest who would do their will and declare Galileo a heretic, and in the trials, these scientists/philosophers were providing the courts incriminating evidences against him, whether meritorious or not. In his book Galileo created a satire of these philosophers while, perhaps inadvertently, putting words in the Pope's mouth as well. This is what got him into trouble, and he was ordered to house arrest, not to be excuted or tortured as you would have us believe.
Wow. Since Algebra IS a Muslim name, I guess they had nothing to do with it.
Now you're backtracking again. You original said Islam invented Algebra. This is false. Islam took over nations who had already made intellectual progress in various fields. Muslims initially borrowed and later added to these acheivements while taking credit for them. I never said Muslims never contributed anything scientifically. In fact, I explicitly said that they
did. But to accredit "Islam" with any of this is absurd. Islam took over the greatest Christian cities which had long held intellectual traditions. The far west was always behind the east, so when Islam took over the east, it is little wonder the west was left in the dust. But Islam conquered intellectually thriving areas and turned them into intellectually barren deserts. This should speak volumes in itself. Alexandria was one of the greatest Christian cities in its day, and when Islam took over, changing its name to Cairo, it was all downhill from there on out. The same holds true for Constantinople.
Unfortunately for you, what you posted has opinion, no facts. Care to do some more digging or is that good enough for you?
I'm the only person between us who has provided facts backed up with references. Now you want me to do your homework for you? So far you're just a fountain of bald and ignorant assertions. You made the caims I am refuting and you did so with no evidence other than your say so.
What you just described with that quote are the Christian Crusaders who did the same thing.
Oh really, so the crusaders took over Muslim lands, stole their acheivements and were later accredited things they never really accomplished? Call for references!!!! Anyone who knows anything about history knows the crusaders didn't take over much of anything.
The Crusaders were trying to make pilgrimages to Jerusalem safer, and some got carried away as they broke off into their own renegade factions. And as I already explained, this is to be expected with a large disorganized group with no former military history, suddenly trying to form a military out of volunteers. It is little wonder they didn't end up killing each other by accident.
Witness the "Christians" and the subjugation of Meso America.
Without the approval of the Church, which makes all the difference. These idiots were serving their european kings, not the Church in Rome. Again, the Church is to be accredited with ending slavery, not starting it. It opposed it from start to finish.
The under pinnings of science, observe, note, repeat were done under Islamic scholars. This was very unlike the Christian scholars who were so blinded by the Bible that if it wasn't in the Bible it didn't exist.
Again, this is such a ridiculous rendition of history. I'm shocked that you actually think you're an expert on history. There are obvious reasons why the west was left in the dark while their former Christian lands, ruled by Muslim lords, were making advances. It certainly had nothing to do with Christianity or a lack thereof. Huck already noted some of these reasons, and I notice that none of you have dealt with them. Let's throw out a scenario...
If America was invaded by Mexico and the top 100 institutions of learning were hijacked, would it be really shocking to find out that within the next century, most of the scientific advances were presented by teh Mexican government? Now according to your logic, Mexico would need to be thanked for making scientific contributions whereas the rest of America would be blamed for stagnancy due to religious convictions.
Nobody here is doubting that the west experienced a time where it had to rebuild and rejuvenate itself. But it eventually did, and it not only caught up with its former self, it surpassed Islam by leaps and bounds. Again, you never explained why Islam fell so hard and so quickly as it did. What is your explanation? What happened to the glory days of Muslim science? I know the answer, but I'm wondering if you do. Here is a hint. It has nothing to do with Wahhabism.
And while you're at it, go look up the top 100 inventions/discoveries of the world and count how many Muslims are involved. I remember reading a book on this once and I'm not sure there were even five altogether, and none of them were in the top tewnty. Christians and Jews led the way in almost every significant field.
To say that Christianity gave us Democracy, ended slavery, was the seat of learning etc., is pompous and just wrong.
Unfortunately, you're not in any position to prove me wrong. But to be clear, it was Frederich Neitzche, one of your famous atheists, who said democracy in the west was due to Christianity. Was he pompous as well?
I am not defending Islam.
No, you're just relaying the usual tripe from academia about how we owe Islam so much in science. Yet, the fact that you cannot manage to offer an similar appreciation towards Christain civilization, despite the fact that Christian scientists were the
fathers of "modern science," speaks volumes, and pretty much proves my point - you hate Christianity so much, so can praise its enemy.
Now you can get offended because of you're stupid comments, but nobody here made you say the stupid things you've said; namely that Islam gave us numbers!
Long before Islam, zero was used in India and even in Ancient America. Diophantus of Alexandria is the real father of algebra, as history will attest. Rational numbers were used by ancient Egyptians long before Islam.1300 years before Islam, Pythagoras was using irrational numbers. Prime numbers were figured out 1000 years before Islam. In 776 a.d., which is probably what you are trying to refer to, the Arabs adopted the 9 numeral system developed by the Indians. That's it. They adopted it from those who came up with it. They didn't come up with it themselves.
OBTW, in Christian lands, the church ruled over the kingdoms, with various sucess, due to the church being able to censure an entire area as heretical and every other noble and robbor baron could do whatever they wanted to do to the people that lived there.
The King was not subordinate to the Church. Again, the State adopted the Church as its own baby, not vice-versa. The Church was always a slave to the state. You're living in more anti-Christian fantasy land where the Vatican controls all governments. Only moronic bigots with no respect for history maintain these falsehoods.
I would not want to live in an Islamic Theocracy even less than I'd want to live in a Christian Theocracy.
I guess that's the closest thing to a compliment we can expect from you.
But it was Islam that "carried the torch" for learning
Islam stole the torch by force, burned up all the resources, brutalized its communities by enforcing Islamic law, eventually killed philosophy with infuencial theologians like Al Ghazali, and then relied on ignorant people like you to give them credit for things they never did.
And do you know wha was the main drive behind European technology and science? It was that most Christ like of all Christian pursuits, WAR.
Ah, not surprising that you'd focus on recent and relatively few, 19th century war-related examples and ignore the foundational scientific innovations pre-1915 that had virtually nothing to do with war. One wouldn't expect a history expert to do this, but then, you're not one.
“All knowledge of reality starts from experience and ends in it...Propositions arrived at by purely logical means are completely empty as regards reality." - Albert Einstein