Was Jesus created as a softening of God?

[_Scottie]

This question is mainly for the non-Christian crowd here. We will start with the assumption that the Bible is composed simply of the words of men. That the concept of God was a mixture of myth, ancient God's morphed into the Old Testament God, and someone that could be used to manipulate and control the uneducated masses.

Now, when we think of the God of the Old Testament, we think of wrath and cruelty and...well, a God not dissimilar to the Greek Gods. Full of vengeance and anger, with unlimited power, yet almost impossible to please. Someone that would strike fear and dread into the hearts of the followers.

Then Jesus comes on the scene. He is seen as a character of infinite kindness and goodness. Someone the masses could relate to. The big brother that is going to stand up to the abusive father for us.

I wonder if the idea of the Old Testament God was just not working with the people. Was Jesus invented as a sort of mediator between God and man. Was the Old Testament God just too cruel to use effectively, so they had to create his counterpart? Someone that the people could relate to, yet still worship, all without losing the power of the religion they had built?

[_Moniker]

Hmm... yanno what my mother says about Jesus? She says that after God had a child that he softened up naturally as all parents do. That apparently works for her. :)

Of course I thought to myself -- who am I but not for a child of God? She really blew it!

[_huckelberry]

Sorry to respond,not being the nonchristian crowd. But after all they might be inclined to give you extra latitude, I can try to speak within your premise. I see a variety of difficulties.

This question is mainly for the non-Christian crowd here. We will start with the assumption that the Bible is composed simply of the words of men. That the concept of God was a mixture of myth, ancient God's morphed into the Old Testament God, and someone that could be used to manipulate and control the uneducated masses.

Huckelberry; I do not think there is much likelyhood that the Old Testament was created to control uneduacated masses. It could be seen as created to try and control the king by the masses. It can be seen as a rally point for on group strugglign to exist and excell in a compitition with other unfriendly groups. It could be seen as creating a social cohesion for a group. I might even thnk it is designed to retrojustify a bloody war of conquest. I do think controlling uneducated masses is anachronistic.
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Now, when we think of the God of the Old Testament, we think of wrath and cruelty and...well, a God not dissimilar to the Greek Gods. Full of vengeance and anger, with unlimited power, yet almost impossible to please. Someone that would strike fear and dread into the hearts of the followers.

Huckelberry: There are several things I find puzzling about this. First I can see the God image in the Old Testament as harsh and demanding and reserved in mercy. I find a good bit of difficulty seeing similarities to the greek gods. They seemed more inclined to enjoy war without putting painful moral strings attatched to military success. The Old Testament God helps one group then demands the group to not be like the group they destroyed. If Isreal is to destroy Cannan because of
Cannans evil they better not end being the same. Would the would the Greek Gods get involved in something like that?

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Then Jesus comes on the scene. He is seen as a character of infinite kindness and goodness. Someone the masses could relate to. The big brother that is going to stand up to the abusive father for us.

Huckelberry; First thing to note is that for the Jews Jesus did not replace anybody. The Jews have continued to believe the Old Testament god and see Jesus as another Jewish thinker. It was people loosing faith in Greek gods who found Jesus a point of faith. One possible reason for this may be that the Jews for some reason already believe the Old Testament god to be of infinite kindness and goodness. It is possible that Greeks had some doubts about Zeus good will.
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I wonder if the idea of the Old Testament God was just not working with the people. Was Jesus invented as a sort of mediator between God and man. Was the Old Testament God just too cruel to use effectively, so they had to create his counterpart? Someone that the people could relate to, yet still worship, all without losing the power of the religion they had built?

Huckelberry: Same problem appears. The Jesus story starts with Jews and the Jews for the by far larger part stayed with the belief in the Old Testament god and declined to follow Jesus. It is possible that Jesus story opend the window to a universalising picture of Gods relationship to the world. That would have appealed to nonJews who had some distrust of Jewish militant seperateness.

[_Ray A]

Hmm... yanno what my mother says about Jesus? She says that after God had a child that he softened up naturally as all parents do.

I think that explanation takes the cake. 200 years of Biblical scholarship could not think this up.

[_bcspace]

Then Jesus comes on the scene. He is seen as a character of infinite kindness and goodness. Someone the masses could relate to. The big brother that is going to stand up to the abusive father for us.

Sounds like you have not even read the scriptures. MAtthew 10:34 for example.....

[_Jersey Girl]

This question is mainly for the non-Christian crowd here. We will start with the assumption that the Bible is composed simply of the words of men. That the concept of God was a mixture of myth, ancient God's morphed into the Old Testament God, and someone that could be used to manipulate and control the uneducated masses.

Now, when we think of the God of the Old Testament, we think of wrath and cruelty and...well, a God not dissimilar to the Greek Gods. Full of vengeance and anger, with unlimited power, yet almost impossible to please. Someone that would strike fear and dread into the hearts of the followers.

Then Jesus comes on the scene. He is seen as a character of infinite kindness and goodness. Someone the masses could relate to. The big brother that is going to stand up to the abusive father for us.

I wonder if the idea of the Old Testament God was just not working with the people. Was Jesus invented as a sort of mediator between God and man. Was the Old Testament God just too cruel to use effectively, so they had to create his counterpart? Someone that the people could relate to, yet still worship, all without losing the power of the religion they had built?

No, I don't see it that way. The authors of the Old Testament attempted to speak for God and got it all wrong, and God said, "Do I have to come down there?" And he did.

[_Gazelam]

John Chapter 8 spells it out pretty clear:

http://scriptures.LDS.org/en/john/8/33, ... 3,56-58#33

[_Moniker]

Hmm... yanno what my mother says about Jesus? She says that after God had a child that he softened up naturally as all parents do.

I think that explanation takes the cake. 200 years of Biblical scholarship could not think this up.

Yes! Isn't that just a loverly explanation? I gotta say, I fear I've gained much of my own thinking prowess from my darling Mum. :)

[_Doctor Steuss]

Scottie,
I don’t know if you’ve ever looked into the Documentary Hypothesis at all, but I think it might give a new perspective to your question (in particular the G-d of the Yahwist source).