Comparison of Joseph Smith to King David

[_Abinadi's Fire]

I believe that Joseph Smith was inspired to bring forth the Book of Mormon. Having read the Book of Mormon, I believe it to be an inspired work.

Hi liz - please pardon the intrusion, but this captured my attention. Does this mean you do not hold the Book of Mormon as an ancient book translated by Joseph, but rather he "translated" it by inspiration?

[_Yoda]

I believe that Joseph Smith was inspired to bring forth the Book of Mormon. Having read the Book of Mormon, I believe it to be an inspired work.

Hi liz - please pardon the intrusion, but this captured my attention. Does this mean you do not hold the Book of Mormon as an ancient book translated by Joseph, but rather he "translated" it by inspiration?

To be honest, I'm really not sure. I have read the Book of Mormon cover to cover on four separate occasions. Since I've been a member all my life, and I'm 43, that's probably not saying much. LOL However, what I have come away with from the reading is that there are Christ-like principles taught, and it is another testament to Christ and his work. I have not, in my heart, been able to dismiss this.

There are many aspects of the Church that I disagree with...tenets which do not ring true to me. But like Ray, Harmony, and others here, I cannot dismiss the Book of Mormon.

I have been having a crisis of faith for years in regards to polygamy and other aspects of the Church which have not set right in my mind and heart. I am throwing this question out there to see if anyone else has thought of this comparison. I have yet to hear from any TBM's on the subject. I would be interested in what they have to say.

[_Dr. Shades]

I have been having a crisis of faith for years in regards to polygamy and other aspects of the Church which have not set right in my mind and heart. I am throwing this question out there to see if anyone else has thought of this comparison. I have yet to hear from any TBM's on the subject. I would be interested in what they have to say.

Isn't it glaringly obvious what they'd have to say?

[_the road to hana]

However, what I have come away with from the reading is that there are Christ-like principles taught, and it is another testament to Christ and his work. I have not, in my heart, been able to dismiss this.

Couldn't anyone lift passages from the Bible and say the same, from a purely Christian point of view?

[_truth dancer]

Hi Liz...

Since you haven't had any believers comment, let me comment for them... (smile).

We do not get to choose who is the prophet. God can choose anyone he wants, (any man that is), and it doesn't matter how cruel or nasty or sinful this man may be. God's ways are not man's ways... right? Prophets are just regular guys and God can use them to bring forth whatever he, (God), needs. God never said a prophet had to be a good man, in fact most prophets are not. It is nonsense to suggest that Joseph Smith had to be a perfect man in order to restore the gospel.

Did Joseph Smith fall? What does it matter? He restored the one and only true gospel and polygamy was a part of this restoration. He got a revelation that is recorded, documented, and part of official doctrine. The fact that you cannot see the goodness in celestial marriage is not a reflection of God but your inability to feel the spirit. Perhaps you are not humble enough or sincere enough, or have not repented from some serious sin.

How was that?

;-)

~dancer~

[_Abinadi's Fire]

However, what I have come away with from the reading is that there are Christ-like principles taught, and it is another testament to Christ and his work. I have not, in my heart, been able to dismiss this.

So do you think of the book as a sort of "inspired" commentary?

What do you make of the characters in the book, then? Are they ancient peoples, or "inspired" characters used to enhance and spread the message?

[_Jason Bourne]

Last of all, according to William Marks Joseph did indeed repent of polygamy and planned to do away with it. Unfortunately he was murdered before he had the chance.

Jason -- do you have a source for William Marks statement ??

From Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Ma ... Day_Saints)

In the weeks before Joseph Smith's death, Marks claimed that Joseph came to him and told him that plural marriage had proved a curse rather than a blessing to the church. Smith wanted to take decisive steps to end the practice, but time ran out, related Marks. Other pieces of evidence, such as Joseph's burning of the polygamy revelation and destroying his temple garments, seem to support Marks's story (Quinn, Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power, p. 146). Not all members of the church hierarchy believed Marks's testimony, though Quinn believes that Brigham Young gave credence to it by declaring that Joseph "did not have one particle of spiritual light in him" in the days before his death (as quoted in Quinn, p. 145). In addition, Young would also state that Smith had wearied of polygamous marriage by the time of his death (Quinn, p. 146-147). Ironically, Joseph Smith III later would not believe Marks, either, since Marks implicated Joseph Smith III's father in polygamy. (Quinn, Mormon Hierarchy: Origins of Power, pp. 145-148; Launius, Joseph Smith III: Pragmatic Prophet, p. 199)

[_Jason Bourne]

The difference is that David was confronted by Nathan and repented. Joseph Smith was not confronted, apart from women rejecting him, and did not repent.

He didn't? How do you know? And David....hmmm he murdered to get one of his wives. I do not think Smith did that.

Oh and David did not repent of polygamy now did he. Nathan did not require that of him

Last of all, according to William Marks Joseph did indeed repent of polygamy and planned to do away with it. Unfortunately he was murdered before he had the chance.

Why did Joseph Smith order the destruction of the printing press for the Nauvoo Expositor? It seems to me that he was disturbed that the sole issue of this paper revealed that he was practicing polygamy. This does not seem consistent with the idea that he planned to do away with it. On 5/26/1844, he stated, "What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one." Thus, he was lying about polygamy a month before his murder on 6/27/44.

Smith was in a no win here. Even if he planned to do away with it he still wanted to keep it a secret. In fact, keeping it a secret was even more important if he planned to so away with it.

Oh can can you please address my other points above about David and Smith? Joseph Smith did not commit murder to get a wife. David did. David was not required to repent of polygamy. Why do you think Joseph was?

[_Jason Bourne]

Liz, what makes you think David was a great (not to mention real), prophet?

Joseph Smith's character does not seem to be very good prior to the coming forth of the Book of Mormon. His treasure hunting, lying, womanizing etc was a long term problem no?

~dancer~

Joseph womanized prior to the Book of Mormon????

[_Jason Bourne]

I'm not sure why Joseph Smith ought to command so much loyalty that ways are looked for and developed to keep believing in him despite the evidence to the contrary. If he wasn't really a true prophet, then let him go! Why go through all the trouble and effort trying to find ways to continue believing in him like this? In other words, if his life and works after, say, 1832 or 1833 or so demonstrate that he wasn't actually a true prophet, why is there this need to find a way to continue believing that he at least had been a true prophet up to 1832 or 1833? How does a person believe that God would "restore" his one and only true and living church to the face of the Earth and let it be led for another 12 years or so by a lying, philandering con artist? Does that really make any sense?

What makes more sense, that Joseph Smith really was a lying, philandering con artist but God really did use him anyway to "restore" true Christianity, and priesthood authority, to Earth, or that Joseph Smith was really a lying, philandering con artist and the early Saints were just another mislead group of religious believers lead astray in their lives by yet another charismatic young religious leader?

ps: Gaz, what made you think that picture was a good idea? I'm not alone in being a little mystified by that particular choice.

There can be an in between. I do not believe in prophets in that way we were taught to believe. So Moses, Muhammed, Peter, Paul and all of them were not getting all truth all at once. Rather I believe God (I know you do not believe there is a God Seth. I have faith in one) inspires religous direction to various people that can be used to help others understand God and live a life of faith in a way that will work for them. So I believe prophets get inspiration but they do a lot on their own. Some do better then others. Islam will work and help many, Mormonism will too and still works for me. Catholicism is better for others.

So I think Smith did get inspired and was on a good track but then after about 1838 started introducing moree and more ideas that were perhaps his own. But still Mormonism works for millions that maybe other religions would not have.

I hope this explanation makes sense even if it may not make sense to the non believers or to the TBMs here. I look for truth wherever I can find it though it is hard to tell what it really is at times. But for me the LDS Church works still and is the best.