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_Ray A

Post by _Ray A »

dartagnan wrote:Since you bring this up, did you explicitly ask him if he thought I was an anti-Mormon, or are you simply inferring from his silence that he doesn't think that?


There was no "silence". That's all I will say.

dartagnan wrote:Not that it really matters what Dan thinks of me, but I can't think of any specific time when he said "Kevin is anti-Mormon." Although he has called me anti-Muslim, which is equally erroneous. What I am thinking of is when he described my comments as anti-Mormon, or something to that effect. Of course my memory could be bad on this, and I might have him confused with some of the other posters at MADB. Who knows?


I, personally, think you raise some important and pertinent points in regard to Mormon apologetics. I'm also sympathetic to your views about Christianity/theism. I think Dan feels, as I do, that you can, and should, address differences without so much rancour towards those you disagree with. But I understand the problem with defensiveness, on both sides. I know you were offering points of view, and got lambasted for that. So I can understand your defensiveness.
_Mister Scratch
_Emeritus
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Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:13 pm

Post by _Mister Scratch »

Ray---

What's this? Why, are you gossiping? You know, making all these little insinuations about private conversations you've had, boasting about your close-knit relationship with The Great Professor, etc? That's all fine and good, of course, except for the fact that you have been screaming about this behavior in others for quite some time. I guess your criticisms apply to all but yourself, eh mate?



GoodK---

Ray's "bias" stems from the fact that he is a flip-flopper, and from the fact that DCP made him feel "warm and fuzzy." Ray harbors some feelings of insecurity, and was truly bowled over when DCP visited him in Australia. Apparently, Ray was worried that DCP would "reject" him, or would look down on his (i.e., Ray's) "lowly bachelor pad," or whatever, but instead Prof. Peterson was quite warm and friendly, which sent Ray's heart soaring into the stratosphere.

You see: this is the power of the Big Man. To have somebody such as DCP treat him in this fashion was a life-altering event for Ray. Once upon a time, Ray used to use all sorts of rather mean labels to describe the Mopologists, and he once flipped out to the extent that he sent around PMs which read, "YOUR F***ING MISSIONARIES ARE DEAD." But, DCP talked him down, and treated him nicely, and so now Ray is a devoted foot soldier in Prof. P's Army of Righteousness.
_GoodK

Post by _GoodK »

Mister Scratch wrote:Ray---

What's this? Why, are you gossiping? You know, making all these little insinuations about private conversations you've had, boasting about your close-knit relationship with The Great Professor, etc? That's all fine and good, of course, except for the fact that you have been screaming about this behavior in others for quite some time. I guess your criticisms apply to all but yourself, eh mate?



GoodK---

Ray's "bias" stems from the fact that he is a flip-flopper, and from the fact that DCP made him feel "warm and fuzzy." Ray harbors some feelings of insecurity, and was truly bowled over when DCP visited him in Australia. Apparently, Ray was worried that DCP would "reject" him, or would look down on his (I.e., Ray's) "lowly bachelor pad," or whatever, but instead Prof. Peterson was quite warm and friendly, which sent Ray's heart soaring into the stratosphere.

You see: this is the power of the Big Man. To have somebody such as DCP treat him in this fashion was a life-altering event for Ray. Once upon a time, Ray used to use all sorts of rather mean labels to describe the Mopologists, and he once flipped out to the extent that he sent around PMs which read, "YOUR F***ING MISSIONARIES ARE DEAD." But, DCP talked him down, and treated him nicely, and so now Ray is a devoted foot soldier in Prof. P's Army of Righteousness.


Well said. If this was MAD I would employ the clapping smilie right now.
If Bishop Peterson sent his heart into orbit, I'm sure reading your post sent it deep into the ground.

Regards,
GoodK
_Ray A

Post by _Ray A »

Mister Scratch wrote:Ray---

What's this? Why, are you gossiping? You know, making all these little insinuations about private conversations you've had, boasting about your close-knit relationship with The Great Professor, etc? That's all fine and good, of course, except for the fact that you have been screaming about this behavior in others for quite some time. I guess your criticisms apply to all but yourself, eh mate?



GoodK---

Ray's "bias" stems from the fact that he is a flip-flopper, and from the fact that DCP made him feel "warm and fuzzy." Ray harbors some feelings of insecurity, and was truly bowled over when DCP visited him in Australia. Apparently, Ray was worried that DCP would "reject" him, or would look down on his (I.e., Ray's) "lowly bachelor pad," or whatever, but instead Prof. Peterson was quite warm and friendly, which sent Ray's heart soaring into the stratosphere.

You see: this is the power of the Big Man. To have somebody such as DCP treat him in this fashion was a life-altering event for Ray. Once upon a time, Ray used to use all sorts of rather mean labels to describe the Mopologists, and he once flipped out to the extent that he sent around PMs which read, "YOUR F***ING MISSIONARIES ARE DEAD." But, DCP talked him down, and treated him nicely, and so now Ray is a devoted foot soldier in Prof. P's Army of Righteousness.


Scratch is just a very bitter, vindictive person. He made it quite clear after he was banned from MAD that he had one purpose only - revenge. He cannot let go of grudges. He's an unforgiving, mean-spirited person who even hangs on to petty peccadilloes.

What Scratch doesn't understand is that what happened on Z. some five years ago is water under the bridge for both Dan and myself. We even discussed this in person. I make no secret of the fact that I think he's an extremely intelligent and brilliant writer, and I've believed this since 1990, when I began reading the FARMS Review. We actually communicated by snail mail on a couple of occasions. In fact, my attitude to the Church in real life hasn't changed since the early '90s. I was sporadically active, and even taught Gospel Doctrine in 1999-2001. After a traumatic separation/divorce I had two choices, stay in the Church and remarry in the Church, or leave it. I couldn't bring myself to "do this all over again". It just wasn't in me. After I left some negativity re-entered my life, because I was not active, though I did return on occasions for the odd Sunday. However, I remained in contact with the missionaries, who visited many times, because I enjoyed talking to them.

The perceived "shift", or what Scratch ignominously labels "flip-flopping" (which I find just as offensive as the posters screaming "why call us anti-Mormons?", and "let people label themselves". The double standards here are bizzare, but I wear it as we all have to on the Internet) never occurred. You see, there's one fundamental thing people have to understand about Scratch - he's a hypocrite. He says things like "I expect to be taken at my word", then in the next breath he's calling others for "CFR". He condemns others for lying, when he brazenly altered a PM I wrote him, and posted it on the board claiming it was the original I wrote. I will swear by Almighty God, and a thousand Book of Mormons, that Scratch altered that PM. HE knows it, and I know it, yet he so brazenly lied about it. I could never, ever trust such a person again! I think he's a low-life for doing something like this, because it reflects on his very basic honesty/dishonesty. That's why I don't accept anything he says about himself, because he's a dishonest person to the core. I have no problem with my forum opponents who are honest, and most of them, I believe, are. Even Gad, a long time ideological opponent, I believe speaks straight. I almost always disagree with him, but I don't believe he's a liar.

Anyway, I'm not gong to be spending much time on the board today. It's once again my last day off, and I'm off to more exciting adventures tonight. Fortunately I have a job which brings me a lot of mental stimulation, and I love meeting people, and the other challenges I often face, which I feel (at the moment) outweigh the real risks. I've put off properly working on my family history/genealogy blog for two weeks because of posting here, but I'm not going to do it again next week. This is the last, and only forum I post on, and I really believe my forum posting days (on LDS-related boards) are nearly over. I don't know when I'll quit, but I suspect when I do, it will be permanent. I've spent seven years posting on LDS-related boards, beginning with Jim Radford's LDS Forums in July 2000, where I was, ironically, called a "son of perdition" by one zealous LDS poster who was offended when I suggested that the Book of Mormon may not be history. How times have changed!! In seven years this idea is now not so radical, and it's even discussed on MAD quite openly. I wasn't so radical, after all. It has all been very entertaining, and I've met some great "Internet friends", Mormon, ex-Mormon, and still correspond with them by email. Forums provided an avenue of communication for me during those dark days of divorce, when I was battling lawyers. The PC was my best friend, and all I had to do was log in and talk to others. When I do leave, the memories will be very fond, both the good and bad. I do sense that my time is limited, because I'm losing interest. Not many threads excite me these days, because it's all been done over numerous times. I occasionally see a thread on MAD that interests me, but they are few and far between, because it's all old hat. The same thing happened to Tarski, another ideological opponent, but one I grew to have much respect for. RFM holds absolutely no interest for me now. I guess we all have use-by dates. I don't think mine is very far away. So much to do, so little time.
_Mister Scratch
_Emeritus
Posts: 5604
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:13 pm

Post by _Mister Scratch »

Ray A wrote:What Scratch doesn't understand is that what happened on Z. some five years ago is water under the bridge for both Dan and myself. We even discussed this in person. I make no secret of the fact that I think he's an extremely intelligent and brilliant writer, and I've believed this since 1990, when I began reading the FARMS Review.


Yes. Hence, it is accurate for me to surmise that your newfound "devotion" to the defense of TBMs has its basis in Dan's visit to your "lowly bachelor pad." It's just as I said before: you got complimented, you got your ego stroked, and you flip-flopped right over to get your belly rubbed. Your convictions aren't convictions on the basis of your "beliefs": they are "convictions" on the basis of who kisses your butt.

We actually communicated by snail mail on a couple of occasions. In fact, my attitude to the Church in real life hasn't changed since the early '90s.


This is a blatant falsehood. Or, at the very least, it needs to be qualified, since your attitude towards missionaries and LDS apologetics has changed *HUGELY*. Anyone who reads your remarks in my thread, "The Many Faces of Ray A" will see that that's obvious.

I was sporadically active, and even taught Gospel Doctrine in 1999-2001. After a traumatic separation/divorce I had two choices, stay in the Church and remarry in the Church, or leave it. I couldn't bring myself to "do this all over again". It just wasn't in me. After I left some negativity re-entered my life, because I was not active,
(emphasis added)

Huh? What does this mean?


though I did return on occasions for the odd Sunday. However, I remained in contact with the missionaries, who visited many times, because I enjoyed talking to them.


See? This is why I call you a "flip-flopper": you say, "I enjoyed talking to [the missionaries]", and yet you also say, "YOUR F***ING MISSIONARIES ARE DEAD!!!" Will the real Ray please stand up?

The perceived "shift", or what Scratch ignominously labels "flip-flopping" (which I find just as offensive as the posters screaming "why call us anti-Mormons?", and "let people label themselves". The double standards here are bizzare, but I wear it as we all have to on the Internet) never occurred.


Sure it did. You went from rabidly railing against all things Mormon, to railing against all things exmo. You went so far as to say that a Mormon Holocaust is in the works. Nobody has undergone a more dramatic about-face than you have, Ray. I am sorry that you're so upset over my pointing this out. I am sorry to see you coming emotionally unhinged yet again. You do seem like, basically, a pretty nice guy, though you definitely have some anger management problems, and a tendency towards emotional volatility.
_Ray A

Post by _Ray A »

Mister Scratch wrote:
Ray A wrote:What Scratch doesn't understand is that what happened on Z. some five years ago is water under the bridge for both Dan and myself. We even discussed this in person. I make no secret of the fact that I think he's an extremely intelligent and brilliant writer, and I've believed this since 1990, when I began reading the FARMS Review.


Yes. Hence, it is accurate for me to surmise that your newfound "devotion" to the defense of TBMs has its basis in Dan's visit to your "lowly bachelor pad." It's just as I said before: you got complimented, you got your ego stroked, and you flip-flopped right over to get your belly rubbed. Your convictions aren't convictions on the basis of your "beliefs": they are "convictions" on the basis of who kisses your butt.

We actually communicated by snail mail on a couple of occasions. In fact, my attitude to the Church in real life hasn't changed since the early '90s.


This is a blatant falsehood. Or, at the very least, it needs to be qualified, since your attitude towards missionaries and LDS apologetics has changed *HUGELY*. Anyone who reads your remarks in my thread, "The Many Faces of Ray A" will see that that's obvious.

I was sporadically active, and even taught Gospel Doctrine in 1999-2001. After a traumatic separation/divorce I had two choices, stay in the Church and remarry in the Church, or leave it. I couldn't bring myself to "do this all over again". It just wasn't in me. After I left some negativity re-entered my life, because I was not active,
(emphasis added)

Huh? What does this mean?


though I did return on occasions for the odd Sunday. However, I remained in contact with the missionaries, who visited many times, because I enjoyed talking to them.


See? This is why I call you a "flip-flopper": you say, "I enjoyed talking to [the missionaries]", and yet you also say, "YOUR F***ING MISSIONARIES ARE DEAD!!!" Will the real Ray please stand up?

The perceived "shift", or what Scratch ignominously labels "flip-flopping" (which I find just as offensive as the posters screaming "why call us anti-Mormons?", and "let people label themselves". The double standards here are bizzare, but I wear it as we all have to on the Internet) never occurred.


Sure it did. You went from rabidly railing against all things Mormon, to railing against all things exmo. You went so far as to say that a Mormon Holocaust is in the works. Nobody has undergone a more dramatic about-face than you have, Ray. I am sorry that you're so upset over my pointing this out. I am sorry to see you coming emotionally unhinged yet again. You do seem like, basically, a pretty nice guy, though you definitely have some anger management problems, and a tendency towards emotional volatility.


Have a good day, Scratch. I hope you eventually overcome your bitterness, and need for revenge.

Life is too short to be bitter.
_Mister Scratch
_Emeritus
Posts: 5604
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:13 pm

Post by _Mister Scratch »

Ray A wrote:Have a good day, Scratch. I hope you eventually overcome your bitterness, and need for revenge.

Life is too short to be bitter.


Thanks for finally conceding, Ray; I too hope you have a good one.
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