LDS Cult Tithing Horror Stories

[_charity]

Since we are using colors instead of the quote function, I will reply in red.


TD: You completely miss the point. WOW.

Let me try again. To sugges that something one views is horrible should be a motivator because in the next life you will see things differently is not a healthy way to live, nor is it a hopeful or inspiring idea.

All sorts of things are possible... but holding that something horrible will be wonderful in the next life doesn't feel peaceful or holy.

Does that help you to understand?

Charity: But what if your idea that something is horrible is simply a part of social conditioning which is in error and in the next life you will see that you were in error? Suppose you were raised in a vegetarian culture and were taught that meat eating is sinful, horrible, disgusting, etc. Then you learn that what you have been taught is wrong. You could do a 180 turn around. I just suggest that this may be the case. And as you said, our liited human minds cannot possibly comprehend the mysteries of the universe. So you have to keep that option open. Or else abandon your theory that there are things we cannot possibly comprehend.

TD: With all due respect... have you ever even read the New Testament? You know, the spirit of the law rather than the letter of the law idea? The part about compassion, care, love.... ummm charity?

Charity: I am not going to tell you how many times I have read the New Testament through, but the number is considerable. You think that the New Testament condones sin? Just go to any computer searchable New Testament, and type "perfect" in the search bar. The part about "compassion, care, love. . . ummmm" does not include advising people to sin. You have a kid who is unhappy so you tell him "Just use a little heroin. It will make you feel better, and I have compassion on you, and care about you and love you.."

TD: I said nothing about condoning sin. Where did you come up with this idea? You misread yet again. How could you possibly get the idea that my post said anything about a Bishop advising people to sin? How did you come up with this idea about equating compassion with giving heroin? Hmmm....[/color]

Charity: Because of the idea that the bishop could let someone out of the requirement to pay tithing. That would be a sin.

TD: You seem to be so stuck in the whole Law of Moses thing... seriously, why not study the teachings of Jesus for a while?
It couldn't hurt.

Charity: Does it make you feel better to try to put others down? Better ask beastie what that means in terms of personality. She will no doubt give you a whole description of your personality.

TDI'm not in any way trying to put you down. Not at all. I'm offering a suggestion that may be helpful to you. I'm suggesting that the letter of the law idea, the condemnation, judging, control stuff was replaced with a sense of charity and kindness.

To be honest, I think most folks I know in your church have let go of the Law of Moses approach long ago. I even sense GBH is not OK with this rigidness. I'm not a believer in your church but I rarely see members who have such a difficult time showing care for others.

Again, I'm not trying to put you down, just offering a suggestion that may help you understand why so many have a difficult time with your approach.

If you do not find it helpful to read the New Testament, then ignore my suggestion. [/quote]

You have a mistaken sense of compassion and care. If you really want the best for the person, you do what is going to help them in the long run. Not what is easiest or "feels"good.

18 months ago, I broke my leg and severely damaged the knee joint. I spent 2 weeks in the hospital and a month in rehab before I could come home. I had a really mean therapist. He made me do excerises which hurt like crazy. One of the worst was when he would bend my lower leg back to increase the flexibility. It hurt so bad I would almost cry. I hated those exercises. And at times whne the pain was really bad, I hated him. On the wekeends, I had a different therapist. She was really sweet, and she wouldn't push nearly so hard on my leg to make it bend. And it didn't hurt nearly so bad.

Did he force me to do my exercises because he was an Old Testament kind of guy? And was the kind, sweet, no-pain no-gain therapist doing me any favors?

This is the way with life. If you feel sorry for someone because they are in pain (psychological or emotional) and encourage or allow them to do something which is going to make the pain worse in the long run, even though it may ease it temporarily now, are you doing them any favors?

I am the mean therapist. And yes, people will have trouble with that approach. They will cry and beg not to have to go through the pain of therapy. But the sweet therapist who wants to make them "feel better" keeps the patient in rehab longer, and they may even get to go home at all.

[_Inconceivable]

..I had a really mean therapist. ..It hurt so bad I would almost cry. I hated those exercises. ..I hated him.

..This is the way with life.

I am the mean therapist. ..And yes, people will have trouble with that approach.

So to interpret your analogy:

God is mean. He makes you hurt. You hate the exercises. ...You hate God.

This is life to you.

Because you want to be like your God, you are a mean person.

Many people have trouble with that approach.


no problem here (so long as I can avoid being your therapist).


Now, are you implying that at some point you will turn your hatred from God?


I would suggest that your hatred for the effective therapist is woefully misdirected

[_ludwigm]

My little stories - not so horror ones.
We have five children, none of them are common. We have sixty (+ a future one) grandchildren, all of them are common, because they was born after our marriage. Fortunately, only one Mormon is in this big family: my wife. Her membership is worth of a story but this is off.

She pay the tithing after her netto incoming, (now it is her pension). I have said her, she pays it from our budget, because we are a family. Since then she fill the blank secretly. Nota bene, her tithing is the same sum as the cost of a visitation to one of our daughter's family. I have said she is losing one visit in every month. (For the clear picture: we are of the tipical middle class in East Europe, this means 1/8 - 1/10 of the West European or of the US average incoming, with the same prices.)

(Somebody has mentioned the temple wedding ...)
She has said, it would be wonderful to marry in the temple. (If I were a member.) After I asked her how many descendant of us could attend, she never told it again.

She has said, it would be marvelous to go to a mission, as other old temple workers do. (If I were a member.) After I asked her would it be marvelous to not see our grandchildren for one and a half year, she never told it again.

Are these horror stories? Would these stories exist in a sane church, or outside of any church?

[_Infymus]

Are these horror stories? Would these stories exist in a sane church, or outside of any church?

According to the history of posts made here by people like Charity, people who have issues with the Cult, or who are raised under a particular dogma (see "too much Joseph Smith Worship") live in a vacuum. They are anomalies - a perverse set of individuals who due to their "crappy membership" found their way out of the Cult. They are whiners, unclean, non-understanding of their own faith and problem children.

It is an interesting phenomenon to watch how they have to compartmentalize the information so that it fits within their narrow view of life within the Cult. In their limited view, the Cult is perfect, therefore, anyone having issues with the Cult has issues of their own thus causing their own consternation.

[_charity]

..I had a really mean therapist. ..It hurt so bad I would almost cry. I hated those exercises. ..I hated him.

..This is the way with life.

I am the mean therapist. ..And yes, people will have trouble with that approach.

So to interpret your analogy:

God is mean. He makes you hurt. You hate the exercises. ...You hate God.

This is life to you.

Because you want to be like your God, you are a mean person.

Many people have trouble with that approach.


no problem here (so long as I can avoid being your therapist).


Now, are you implying that at some point you will turn your hatred from God?


I would suggest that your hatred for the effective therapist is woefully misdirected

You really didn't understand me. The mean therapist has my undying gratitude. He got me out of rehab and back to normal life. If I had only had the sweet, kindly therapist, I would still be in an institution, eating "hospital" food, shut off from the real world. Thanks goodness for mean therapists.

I could have said the same thing about an effective parent. A successful parent is also seen as "mean." They make their kids do chores, and do their homework, and return something they stole from the store. They have a regular bedtime, and make them eat their vegetables. They don't buy their 16 year olds brand new cars to kill themselves in, and they don't buy booze and condoms for them. And their kids call them mean.

I know the liberal "don't bruise their little psyches" theory. Never let them know there are expectations, or rules, or that they fail every now and then. But this type of parenting produces individuals who are insecure, ineffective and incapable.

God has plans for His children. He wants us to become like He is. He wants us to become gods. You can't do that without learning and growing and becoming. And this "don't make someone feel bad because they sinned" is not going to get us there. As with effective parenting, there is always love and encouragment, even when we fail, and the helping hand to get back on track.

[_Yoda]

My dad decided to skip out on tithing and fund my mish. The Bishop chastised him for this and told him tithing always came first. He should pay his tithing no matter what, and the ward would pay for my mission. My Dad had too much dignity to do that. Also, my Dad reasoned that it was sixes. He tithes $365, and the church turned around and gave him $365 back to pay for my mission. How is that any different than skipping tithing and just paying for my mission?

The Bishop seemed to be on some kind of power trip without a lot of compassion for the Dad. The Dad was still paying the Ward $365, which was his 10% of earnings. Why couldn't the bishop just allocate it as tithing, and have the Ward pay for the mission if it was a wash, anyway? It doesn't make any sense. It's a matter of checking a different box on the slip.

The question is one of who is prideful. If the Bishop switched which fund it went to he would be in the wrong. If the father was unwilling to accept the idea the Bishop offered should the Bishop force him?

The money is all going to the Church. It's just going to different budgets. As far as I'm concerned, he could leave the allocation alone if he felt that was wrong, but I think that, overall, the father's heart was in the right place, and the Bishop should recognize that, and put him down on the books as a full tithe payer at any rate. The guy is still giving 10% of his earnings to the Church.

To extort him for an extra $4000 to see his kid married in the temple when he has faithfully paid 10% of his earnings to the Church is ridiculous.

[_MishMagnet]

I have no tithing stories since I left the church in college. I had paid a faithful tithe up to that point but of course it didn't amount to any "real" sum. I grew up in a large family wearing hand-me-downs and all that stuff. I'm the oldest and if my parents became ill and their care fell to me I would continue to pay tithing for them because it's important to them and I know it. I do believe that people should be able to do whatever they want with their money. Have a cleaning lady, take a vacation, give a bunch to the church. Makes no difference to me so long as one isn't going into debt to do it.

I have a therapy analogy too. I've had a lifetime of ankle issues. After the birth of my second child I was having such severe issues that I was having to crawl down the hall in the middle of the night. I went to a doctor who refered me to a physical therapist. He said we would strengthen my ankle. I did the exercises. I did not complain. Day after day. My problem kept getting worse. Finally it was discovered these exercises had worn a hole in the small amount of cartlilage I had left. I needed two surgeries and spent 8 weeks on crutches because I did the exercises even though it didn't seem to be solving anything.

This is my analogy of the church.

[_KimberlyAnn]

Mishie,

I've seen your sexy shoes, Sister, and they're not doing your ankles any favors!

;)

KA

PS - I'm about ready for that Vegas trip we planned last year and never took...

(I won't derail this thread any further! Sorry!)

[_The Nehor]

My dad decided to skip out on tithing and fund my mish. The Bishop chastised him for this and told him tithing always came first. He should pay his tithing no matter what, and the ward would pay for my mission. My Dad had too much dignity to do that. Also, my Dad reasoned that it was sixes. He tithes $365, and the church turned around and gave him $365 back to pay for my mission. How is that any different than skipping tithing and just paying for my mission?

The Bishop seemed to be on some kind of power trip without a lot of compassion for the Dad. The Dad was still paying the Ward $365, which was his 10% of earnings. Why couldn't the bishop just allocate it as tithing, and have the Ward pay for the mission if it was a wash, anyway? It doesn't make any sense. It's a matter of checking a different box on the slip.

The question is one of who is prideful. If the Bishop switched which fund it went to he would be in the wrong. If the father was unwilling to accept the idea the Bishop offered should the Bishop force him?

The money is all going to the Church. It's just going to different budgets. As far as I'm concerned, he could leave the allocation alone if he felt that was wrong, but I think that, overall, the father's heart was in the right place, and the Bishop should recognize that, and put him down on the books as a full tithe payer at any rate. The guy is still giving 10% of his earnings to the Church.

To extort him for an extra $4000 to see his kid married in the temple when he has faithfully paid 10% of his earnings to the Church is ridiculous.

I disagree. The father should have paid his 10% into tithing and then asked for the Bishop to help. In every ward I've been in people are eager to help with Missionary expenses.

[_Blixa]

This thread reminds of Juanita Brooks's refusal to accede to a Bishop's "authority" over the issue of tithing. The incident apparently irked her enough to recount it at length in her book of autobiographical essays, Quicksand and Cactus . I like Juanita's (and her father's) attitude about deciding such matters, as well as the way the whole story recounts a different kind of Mormonism from a different time and place:

"Charity [one of her sisters] had received a call to go on a mission to the southern states, the first girl of Bunkerville to recieve a mission assignment. This really worried Pa, for another flood had woped out his farm entirely, and he had no regular income. One day at the dinner table the subject came up, and I volunteered: "I'll send you forty dollars a month for the first ear, if you'll give me half the blessings." [LOL] ...

The ward followed the regular pattern for sending out their missionaries: a special dance, with picnic and sale, a quilt to raffle and a few other items for auction. At any rate, they raised more than enough to pay for transportation to her field of labor.

The first month I set up my plan for spending my salary [Juanita is teaching grade school in Bunkerville with hopes of finishing her Dixie College degree at BYU]: to Charity, $40, to Mother for board and baby care, $30 [she is a young widow with a small son], to tithing $8 which left me only a measly $42. How could I ever save enough to get through college at that rate? But when I went in at the close of the year, to settle my tithing, the Bishop said that he must list me as a "part-tithe payer." I should have paid my $12 tithing first, he said, and do whatever I wished to with the remainder. I insisted that the $40 went first to the Church, leaving me only $80 to use for myself. But he would not be convinced.

"I'll have to put youdown as a part-tithe payer," he insisted. "Would you like that on the records?"

"I'll argue it out before St. Peter when we get there," I told him. "I believe he'll agree that I'm making quite a liberal donation to the cause."

I said nothing to my folks about this, but evidently the Bishop talked to Pa about it, thinking to get more. But Pa only said that I was an adult, and could manage my own affairs."