End goal?

[_Ren]

Blixa,

Perfect!

[Guest]

On Beauty and/of Skepticism. I offer for Nehor (and everyone's) perusal, Keat's statement on "negative capability:"

"I had not a dispute but a disquisition with Dilke, on various subjects; several things dovetailed in my mind, & at once it struck me, what quality went to form a Man of Achievement especially in literature & which Shakespeare possessed so enormously - I mean Negative Capability, that is when man is capable of being in uncertainties, Mysteries, doubts without any irritable reaching after fact & reason."

In the letter from which this famous quote is taken, Keat's was defining an exteme open-mindedness bordering on total empathy: the ability to hold several points of view at the same time, the ability to not only grasp another's view point, but creatively "melt" into it. Something quite opposite to the rigidity of the true believer of many stripes. This passage always struck me as a very passionate evocation of a kind of "complete skepticism" (though not along the lines you were taking, Nehor).

Sounds more like Tsuzuki's cup of tea. :)

[_Sethbag]

What's the material difference between this negative capability and TBMs putting contradictory ideas "on the shelf" or compartmentalizing their beliefs to keep the contradictory ones from annoying them? Or saying things like "well we don't know that, and I'm comfortable with that - God will tell us when we die"?

[Guest]

Or saying things like "well we don't know that, and I'm comfortable with that - God will tell us when we die"?

I guess it's the difference between saying:

"I can't be sure"

and

"I can't be sure right now, but I will be one fine day! ...you just wait and see if I'm not...!"

Sounds more like Tsuzuki's cup of tea

I find Tsuzuki to be one of the sanest people on MADB. By quite a ways...!

[_The Nehor]

What's the material difference between this negative capability and TBMs putting contradictory ideas "on the shelf" or compartmentalizing their beliefs to keep the contradictory ones from annoying them? Or saying things like "well we don't know that, and I'm comfortable with that - God will tell us when we die"?

I try to avoid that. I'm not comfortable with not knowing. God may tell us when we die but I want to know NOW!!!! I don't get it all but I have found that God does not condemn honest curiosity.

[_Blixa]

Or saying things like "well we don't know that, and I'm comfortable with that - God will tell us when we die"?

I guess it's the difference between saying:

"I can't be sure"

and

"I can't be sure right now, but I will be one fine day! ...you just wait and see if I'm not...!"

Yes, that and considering other points of view as equal to your own...you would have to hold everything about the church (not just the shelf items) in suspension.

The real test though is whether any LDS have produced the kind of work Keats did proceeding from this assumption...(where are those Mormon shakespears???)

[_The Nehor]

Or saying things like "well we don't know that, and I'm comfortable with that - God will tell us when we die"?

I guess it's the difference between saying:

"I can't be sure"

and

"I can't be sure right now, but I will be one fine day! ...you just wait and see if I'm not...!"

Yes, that and considering other points of view as equal to your own... The real test though is whether any LDS have produced the kind of work Keats did proceeding from this assumption...(where are those Mormon shakespears???)

Still working on my book, give me time please.

[_Blixa]

[Still working on my book, give me time please.

Why? Keats didn't have it.

[_The Nehor]

[Still working on my book, give me time please.

Why? Keats didn't have it.

From what I remember he did take a little time to write his books.

[_Ren]

Still working on my book, give me time please.

I'll give it a 'skeptical' look over when you're finished ;)
(...and check out that smilie!)