Dr. Shades - Update your Guide

[_Imwashingmypirate]

LIZ3864:

................... Humans have a wider range of emotions than six)

Some don't.

[_Ray A]

#5, #6, #7? There is much more than can be added.

I'll try five: Don't try to destroy something merely because you disagree with it, and have had bad experiences with it. Many others have had positive, uplifting, life-changing experiences with what you despise. But, it appears, you will never see, nor tolerate this.

[_Sethbag]

Here's a great example from my own life. When I was in my very young teens, like say, 12 or so, I recall conversations happening in classes at church where the topic of fossils and the age of the Earth came up. I had a young and pliable mind, and I had been raised by my TBM parents to trust implicitly in what was taught at church. I was told by an adult (can't remember if it was deacons or sunday school anymore, it was too long ago) that the dinosaur bones were in the Earth because the Earth was made from parts of other planets that were recycled by God. On those other planets dinosaurs had lived, but they had never actually lived on Earth.

Pretty simple to refute that as "not doctrine", right? What about when one is 12 years old? What about when one has been taught to be trusting of one's elders and teachers at church? What about when the adult doing the teaching actually references a previous General Authority who had said it? The Internet Mormons would say it was my own damn fault for being too gullible (at the ripe old age of 12) and not having been clever enough to figure out the difference between "official" doctrine and "unofficial" doctrine and "personal opinion" doctrine.

Thankfully, in my case, I didn't hold onto those beliefs for very long. Throughout High School I went over conclusively to the side of science in terms of evidence having to do with the Earth, fossils, evolution, no Flood of Noah, etc. So this one didn't ruin me for life or anything like that. In fact, as I look back in my life, I can see the whole "dinosaurs came from recycled planets" teaching episode as giving me the first reason to accept that some people at church, including GAs, didn't know what they were talking about and were simply wrong. That was the first of quite a few things like that which undercut their credibility in my mind, and eventually lead, decades later, to where I'm at now.

So thanks, whoever first taught that dinosaurs came from recycled planets! You're utter moronity helped me understand the false nature of this church!

[_Infymus]

#5, #6, #7? There is much more than can be added.

I'll try five: Don't try to destroy something merely because you disagree with it, and have had bad experiences with it. Many others have had positive, uplifting, life-changing experiences with what you despise. But, it appears, you will never see, nor tolerate this.

How about you recall your 50k plus missionaries and tell them this:

People's lives are fine. Quit trying to convert them to your Cult simply because you think they'll have better experiences with it. Many people have positive, uplifting, life changing experiences without your Cult. But it appears that you will never see nor tolerate them living without the one and only Truth created by a convicted criminal.

I will continue to work to help people find out the truth about your Cult before they join - the hundreds of things your Cult omits during investigative processes.

I will also continue to help the thousands who manage to get out who now need to recover from the years of being in your Cult.

[_Ray A]

People's lives are fine. Quit trying to convert them to your Cult simply because you think they'll have better experiences with it. Many people have positive, uplifting, life changing experiences without your Cult. But it appears that you will never see nor tolerate them living without the one and only Truth created by a convicted criminal.

I am not trying to convert anyone to anything. I was in your position in the late 1980s. I thought that my transition was "smooth", but upon reading my past correspondence, I can now see I was as bitter, yes bitter, as you are now. 2 years wasted, life F*****. Add whatever you want. On RFM I posed the question as to how I might sue the Church for lost tithing!

There's only one thing I can say, Infymus - time heals, and changes perspectives. Would you like to see my 1988 excommunication request letter? I'll dig it up and post it just for you, and maybe one day you'll realise that I know, and understand, the source of your anger even better than you do.

[_Dr. Shades]

(PS: we need more emoticons. Humans have a wider range of emotions than six)

Actually, we only "need" (ahem) one emoticon: The basic smilie face. That's all that's needed to convey sarcasm/"just kidding," which was the original stressor for smilies in the first place.

[_Gazelam]

I was told by an adult (can't remember if it was deacons or sunday school anymore, it was too long ago) that the dinosaur bones were in the Earth because the Earth was made from parts of other planets that were recycled by God. On those other planets dinosaurs had lived, but they had never actually lived on Earth.

This isn't the first time I've heard this, but I don't know where this came from originaly. Does anyone have an original sourse for this non-sense?

[_Ray A]

I have one last thing to say before I head off to work. I think, from what I've read, Infymus is actually probably a nice and likeable person in real life. His descriptions of family interactions, the fact that his wife is an active Mormon (in a Church he's trying to stop people joining), abounds with ironies. It not only says something about his real level of tolerance for other people's choices, it also may say something about the Internet. I know I lost it on RFM and Z , but in real life I had many Mormons friends (still do), and until late 2004 I occasionally went back to Church (and as I mentioned I taught Gospel Doctrine in 1999-2000). I was soured by interacting with an LDS poster in 2000, the one who called me a "son of perdition", and we clashed for about a year. I respected DCP since 1990, yet Z. brought out a lot of "Internet animosity".

I think it may be time for me to try to make my "Internet peace" with exmos (I might regret saying this, but I hope not). In fact, in real life, I am an ex-Mormon. This is not a fluke, an imitation, a deception. I am really an ex-Mormon. I post here, and not MADB anymore, because I'm not a TBM. I defend the Book of Mormon, but I'm willing to look at it critically too, not cynically. I defended Mormons, perhaps hypocritically because I attacked them on Z, because I realised that the source of my own anger was wrong, and I deleted my anti-angry-exmo blog (yes, it went to Hades) because I realised, as some pointed out, I'd achieve nothing by returning anger for anger. And yes, like most of us I like to think I'm always right, but I'm not. I empathise with much exmo sentiment, but not attacks on the Church, because that will achieve nothing either. I simply cannot be a TBM, and I raised five children who are no where near the Church (but they can still make that choice if they want, but I know them, and it's not going to happen). I think, in reality, all I'd really like to see is more rational discourse between Mormons and exmos. Like Richard Dawkins said of himself - I'm probably not the best one to facilitate this. I don't have the tact. I think people like Don Bradley do a much better job. And I'll put in a word for Wade Englund here too. If some of you knew Wade from Z, you'd realise how much he has changed in his approach. And of course, Liz. I could mention more, but I'm running very late now.

[_Blixa]

I was told by an adult (can't remember if it was deacons or sunday school anymore, it was too long ago) that the dinosaur bones were in the Earth because the Earth was made from parts of other planets that were recycled by God. On those other planets dinosaurs had lived, but they had never actually lived on Earth.

This isn't the first time I've heard this, but I don't know where this came from originaly. Does anyone have an original sourse for this non-sense?

I'm pretty sure none of my seminary teachers originated it, but they sure spread it!

[_Infymus]

I am not trying to convert anyone to anything. I was in your position in the late 1980s. I thought that my transition was "smooth", but upon reading my past correspondence, I can now see I was as bitter, yes bitter, as you are now. 2 years wasted, life F*****. Add whatever you want. On RFM I posed the question as to how I might sue the Church for lost tithing!

There's only one thing I can say, Infymus - time heals, and changes perspectives. Would you like to see my 1988 excommunication request letter? I'll dig it up and post it just for you, and maybe one day you'll realise that I know, and understand, the source of your anger even better than you do.

So you were excommunicated in 1988, but came back and was re baptized then - right?

I understand that time heals and changes perspectives. You should have seen me in 2003 (2 years after leaving the Cult) when I discovered RFM and began unraveling the truths (you know, the ones that I was taught to believe and have been called an idiot for doing so?). Needless to say, I was incredibly angry at the Mormon Cult. Every day I unraveled more and more about the Cult that I did not know - polygamy, polyandry, Joseph Smith being arrested, never being told he actually had a GUN in the Carthage jail - all of the lies about persecution. Burning the Nauvoo Press. Sex with teenage girls. Book of Abraham facsimiles and how Joseph made it all up. Lies, changed doctrine, altered history, murder - Mormonism has worked diligently to hide its seedy past.

What hurt the most was the omissions and the outright lies told by the Apologists to cover up the parts of Mormon history that they did not want people to really understand. I began to realize how much of my life was wasted in the hands of the Mormon cult. I began to realize that I had allowed these men - who really had no authority, no priesthood, no real God behind them - to direct my life. I began to realize the misery I had suffered at the hands of so-called "called of God" men who had abused their authority - and the whole time I could have told them to f*** off and picked up my life and moved on. Jesus Christ, I f*****g lost years - YEARS - of my life trying to turn myself into a puzzle piece that would fit the Mormon Cult.

The Mormon Cult prevents human beings from growing emotionally and psychologically. It caps them at a teenage level and keeps them there. Once I left the Cult and began leading my own life, making my own decisions not based on a feeling I "may" or "may not" have receive under my nipples - I began to grow in substantial leaps and bounds. I found my voice - something that I had been taught needed to be buried deep inside. I became. I grew.

This hatred complex in the minds of Mormons all boils down to perception. Mormons perceive that I am angry, bitter and hateful. Far from it. My lack of empathy and respect for the Mormon Cult will always be perceived as such. Mormons here and elsewhere continue to tell me to "get help", "grow up", and "move on" - feh, let them. They are the ones left behind emotionally and psychologically - their growth hindered by a Cult that demands money, power and control. It is the Cult of Mormonism that has taught them to hate those who question or as they call it – “contention”. Apologists use the word “Anti-Mormon” to categorize and demonize those who object to the spin Apologists create.

As long as there are human beings struggling under the Mormon Cult, I will be here to help them get out and start on the path of recovery. By providing them the answers that the Mormon Cult purposefully omits - but showing them the real answers that Apologists do not want them to know - and by providing them safe havens to work out their anger, pain and frustrations caused by years of being in an indoctrinating Cult.