What do LDS men think of non-virginal women?

[_Imwashingmypirate]

I think it would depend if the men were "viginial". I discovered recently that church memebers aren't always as innocent as they make out to be. The majority of people my age, in church that I know, play around and are not "virginial". I was rather shocked. But in some cases it is a given thing.

[_Infymus]

The LDS Cult treats "non virgin women" far worse than 2nd class citizens. From my experience in the Ex-Mormon and Mormon worlds, women who have had sex before marriage - or even had "legal" sex during marriage and then divorced - are treated horribly in the Mormon Cult. They are far far worse than licked cupcakes.

The subject of "deflowering" of women in Mormonism isn't a topic I have kept on the MC, for obvious reasons. However, I have seen a great deal of subjects over the last five years where non virginal women were seen almost as having a disease you didn't want to even be around. I have seen far more subjects on how the sexuality of Mormon males is the role of the Mormon female.

Remember: In Mormonism, a woman is responsible for the sexual activity of the male. Women are counseled over and over about staying moral, clean and not being a "licked cupcake". As a male, I was never counseled at all about chastity. The only time it was ever brought up was during interviews to ask if I'd spanked the monkey or had sex with another person. Sex before marriage was the sin next to murder. So if you had sex out of marriage, you just "murdered" something, somehow, somewhere. It was just assumed you knew better. Most of the lessons for the male centered around Joseph Smith, prior prophets and occasionally, Jesus Christ (of course, only in his capacity in talking to Joseph in the sacred grove).

God, what a messed up Cult Mormonism is.

[_Moniker]

Well, this is interesting to me. Apparently the only ones that seem to view non-virginity in a very harsh light are the females -- according to some responses so far from Sethbag, and Ludwigm. I assumed men had some sort of similar emphasis because of comments I've seen on MAD concerning chastity... perhaps the men here are being polite?

I believe in society, in general, women judge each other more harshly for sexual matters anyway. I really had no idea if that was the case in LDS, or not. Perhaps being told that men only want "fresh" pastries, that while the females vie for male attention, that they may judge each other as being less "fresh"?

Infymus, thanks for your comments. I didn't recognize that sexuality was given sole proprietorship to the females in the Church.

Pirate you're the only female on this thread (excluding myself) and you had the only response on the thread, so far, that I was somewhat expecting. That's not a bad thing, though! Why are you shocked that people "play around"? Is it that they are aware that it is forbidden?

Bond or Liz, please move the doooosh, Nehor exchange to telestial. Thank you.

[_Moniker]

Guys what are your thoughts on women that have had multiple partners?

I think it means very little in and of itself. Extra details might change my opinion somewhat, but that single detail in and of itself would have next to no impact on my 'opinion' of them.

Or a woman that has had intercourse outside of marriage?

This would totally depend on the circumstances. Totally. For me anyway...

Ren, was this never a concern when you were active? Was a woman's chastity more important then?

[_Ren]

Ren, was this never a concern when you were active? Was a woman's chastity more important then?

Was never in the situation where it was an issue, but I'm pretty confident in saying that it wouldn't have been - no. It wouldn't have mattered to me what a person's past was like - only what I considered them to be now.

I don't think my being LDS or non-LDS has much to do with it. My sister is still LDS, and she thinks the same way. I couldn't imagine her judging a person over their virginity. Not a chance..
Well, only in the sense of if they claimed to be a 'practicing' LDS, and didn't consider it a big deal say. But then I think the main 'charge' would be hypocrisy.

EDIT: When I say 'I wouldn't consider their past', I mean - within some reasonable bounds. If someone has committed murder in the past, I'd have to think carefully about that one! :D

[_Jason Bourne]

This is is a complex subject and one that will receive a variety of responses. But in general I think many active LDS men would prefer a virgin wife as LDS women most likely would prefer a virgin husband.

The heavy emphasis on chastity that is taught in the LDS Church is certainly going to create such a view. It is taught that chastity is highly valued and in spite of what some argue it has been taught that it is worth keeping above one's own life. Comments in talks over the years that any active LDS parent would rather see a child in a coffin then lose their virtue certainly exacerbate this in people minds. Frequent references to the Book of Mormon passage where Alma tells an erring some that his sexual sin was the most abominable above all others save blasphemy against the Holy Ghost and shedding of innocent blood fosters teachings that sexual sin is the third worst sin and stands next to murder.

Over the years various object lessons have been used, some more frequently than others, like the licked cupcake, the crushed rose, the nail in the board always leaving a hole and so on impress upon young minds that a person who is not a virgin is always damaged. Sure they can repent but they will always be less then other who did not commit such an heinous sin.

That said there certainly is an emphasis on repentance and a full restoration of virtue at least spiritually when one changes and repents. I think it is emphasized more then when I was young. And I think the church is toning down and getting away from the object lessons that were frankly just awful ways to teach. But it is a tough balance and there is still the idea that one who loses their virginity before marriage is second class.

So yea, many men and women struggle with this I think. Personally I have wrangled with issues of sexuality and how it relates to this topic and others for a long time. This has touched me in personal ways and cause me sorrow, sadness and anger. But I think the struggle has helped me to come to learn to apply mercy and meekness maybe in ways I never would have had I not been touched by this in the ways I have been.

Anyway that is my quick take on this.

[Guest]

Was a woman's chastity more important then?

Just to clarify further...

...maybe your question is: "Given the choice between two women - one that is living by gospel principles, and one who is not, all things being equal which one would I choose?' - then as an active LDS, I would certainly have been more likely to chose the one that was living gospel principles. Which would mean that currently, they wouldn't consider sex outside of marriage 'OK', and of course (unless their happy to say one thing, but do another - which I wouldn't find attractive) they would avoid doing it.

But it wouldn't matter to me if - say - someone had converted to the church later in life and had sex outside of marriage before that, when they thought differently about it all. That wouldn't have made any difference to me...

Actually - now that I think about it, something like this did happen. Just before my mission, a girl was bought to church by the missionaries. I remember we got on pretty well. This was just before my mission though, so even if something could have 'happenned', there was no time to really get to know her. (She did give me a note just before I left wishing me luck etc.)

She had a kid. And I'm pretty sure - from memory - she'd never been married. Didn't bother me in the slightest, and I was very much still 'active' then...

[_Moniker]

I don't care one bit. Sex is like breathing; every higher member of the animal kingdom has to do it.

The typical answer you will receive from a typical Liberal, reflecting the moral intelligence of a Fiddler Crab.

Every time I see intellectual vacuity of this magnitude, I feel a breeze near my modem...

Hi, Coggins. :)

You're active LDS, do you have any thoughts on the op? Nehor mentioned respect. Is that how you viewed any lessons as it related to women?

[Guest]

This is is a complex subject and one that will receive a variety of responses. But in general I think many active LDS men would prefer a virgin wife as LDS women most likely would prefer a virgin husband.

This is what I've gathered, as well, from observing the conversations on a few boards. Thanks for your honest reply. :)

The heavy emphasis on chastity that is taught in the LDS Church is certainly going to create such a view. It is taught that chastity is highly valued and in spite of what some argue it has been taught that it is worth keeping above one's own life. Comments in talks over the years that any active LDS parent would rather see a child in a coffin then lose their virtue certainly exacerbate this in people minds. Frequent references to the Book of Mormon passage where Alma tells an erring some that his sexual sin was the most abominable above all others save blasphemy against the Holy Ghost and shedding of innocent blood fosters teachings that sexual sin is the third worst sin and stands next to murder.

Yes, I was aware that sex was equated to murder. So, perhaps there is quite a bit of emphasis for the men, as well. Obviously no one wants a sinner as a mate! I even believe that I've seen talk from men on the boards (even in Shades blog when he was younger and in Japan) where it was extremely important that a woman be spiritual or holy -- I can't recall the precise words but those were the sentiments.

Over the years various object lessons have been used, some more frequently than others, like the licked cupcake, the crushed rose, the nail in the board always leaving a hole and so on impress upon young minds that a person who is not a virgin is always damaged. Sure they can repent but they will always be less then other who did not commit such an heinous sin.

Was this emphasized for men as well? That women are "damaged"?

That said there certainly is an emphasis on repentance and a full restoration of virtue at least spiritually when one changes and repents. I think it is emphasized more then when I was young. And I think the church is toning down and getting away from the object lessons that were frankly just awful ways to teach. But it is a tough balance and there is still the idea that one who loses their virginity before marriage is second class.

So yea, many men and women struggle with this I think. Personally I have wrangled with issues of sexuality and how it relates to this topic and others for a long time. This has touched me in personal ways and cause me sorrow, sadness and anger. But I think the struggle has helped me to come to learn to apply mercy and meekness maybe in ways I never would have had I not been touched by this in the ways I have been.

Anyway that is my quick take on this.

I would think that struggles often help us develop mercy and empathy. :)

Thanks so much for your reply!

[Tator]

I totally agree with Jason.

My exmo boyfriend and I have discussed this in the past. I am very curious about the effect of LDS teachings on children, since I didn't grow up LDS. His view was that remaining sexually chaste in all ways, which included trying his best to abstain from masturbation (which you can imagine is very difficult for a teenage boy), was really difficult, but that since he did it, he deserved someone else who had maintained that chastity, too.


I'm sure LDS men like ren do exist, but I frankly believe they are the minority.

I also agree that LDS women want a virgin husband, too - but suspect that there may be a hair more flexibility on this issue simply due to the overall double standard seen in larger society as well.

I don't totally agree that chastity is the sole responsibility of the female, but I do think that most LDS do think that since men have far stronger sex drives, they are more apt to go out of bounds, and a "good girl" will reign that in. It's my impression - not my experience, since I didn't grow up LDS - that the anti-masturbation teaching is stressed more to the young men than to the young women, since the assumption is that it's the young men who will be tempted. In a way, it almost strikes me that LDS view females as potentially sexless in general. If LDS girls lose their virginity, they "gave in" to a persistent boy, and that's why she failed to "reign him in", so to speak. The idea of a female with a strong sex drive and potentially the aggressor is, practically speaking, unheard of.