Helen Whitney and the Princeton panel presentation

[_truth dancer]

Hi Runtu...

I remember several years ago, after thinking I was fairly knowledgeable about the church, and discovering that I only knew the faith promoting story.. (smile) wondering (to no one in particular), "tell me what the church believes and I will tell you if I believe it or not."

Of course no one can really do such a thing... everyone just shares their opinions, their interpretations, and how they imagine the church doctrines which shift, disappear, change, or evaporate at a moments notice.

I still something wonder when people say, they know the church is true, what exactly they mean. (smile)

~dancer~

[_Bond...James Bond]

I'll let the Mormons in on how nevermo people think about Mormons...You guys are weird!

We hear about the secret underwear and think: WEIRD!

We hear about your living prophet who doesn't prophesize and think: WEIRD!

We look at your naïve missionaries who are 50 years out of date in dress and think: WEIRD!

Secret ceremonies: WEIRD!

We hear Utah and think: WEIRD!

Jesus in the Americas: WEIRD!

and on and on and on...you're never not going to have image issues with nevermo's cause you'll always be a weird subculture. That's the gods honest truth.

by the way: nevermo who for some reason is quasi interested in the Weirdness: Double WEIRD

[_bcspace]

One can't really get honest answers regarding doctrine/teachings/beliefs.

Of course you can. I don't see why it's so much trouble for you. Perhaps it is because they're not the answers you were hoping for?

[_charity]

I thought the clip demonstrats the difficulty many have with the LDS church.

One can't really get honest answers regarding doctrine/teachings/beliefs. Maybe because no one really knows? -)

It can be frustrating.

~dancer~

This is not a reasonable argument TD. Ask and you can get a straightforward answer on any question you have. You just don't want to take the answer because you disagree with it. That isn't the same as not getting an answer.

And anyone who saw the documentary knows there was an axe to grind there. The spooky picture of Moroni? Nothing scary about Moroni, and the picture that was displayed over and over could have been one of the paintings depicting Mormoni's visitation to Joseph, or one of the statues on the temples.

Just after the statement was played that the Church has nothing to do with fundamentalist polygamists groups is a LONG segment on fundamentalist polygamists!

[_truth dancer]

This is not a reasonable argument TD. Ask and you can get a straightforward answer on any question you have. You just don't want to take the answer because you disagree with it. That isn't the same as not getting an answer.

I completely disagree. Further, I did not in any way suggest that one wouldn't get answers. I stated that the answers are OPINIONS.

Yes there are answers, the problem is no two answers are the same.

Your opinion is not going to match many other believing members I know. Even the prophets only share opinion on what they think the current teaching is.

~dancer~

[_Ray A]

Helen Whitney must have Italian ancestry.

[_Henry Jacobs]

There's a reason she referred to secrecy as the old chestnut. It is one of the very basic issues people have with Mormonism and why the work will never "roll forth" to the degree the church would like.

the church tries to say, "We are the one true church on the earth. Exaltation can ONLY be achieved by gaining a testimony of our doctrines and partaking of our temple ordinances. But just don't ask us to tell you what they are, because we can't. After you join us, spend enough time with us and show enough loyalty and dedication to us, you can learn about those ordinances, but not until. For now, just know that we believe Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior.

Charity, BC, don't you guys see something not quite right about that approach? Not to mention not-quite-Christlike?

[_Dr. Shades]

What sayest thou?

I say she desperately needs to get a new hairstyle.

[_charity]

There's a reason she referred to secrecy as the old chestnut. It is one of the very basic issues people have with Mormonism and why the work will never "roll forth" to the degree the church would like.

the church tries to say, "We are the one true church on the earth. Exaltation can ONLY be achieved by gaining a testimony of our doctrines and partaking of our temple ordinances. But just don't ask us to tell you what they are, because we can't. After you join us, spend enough time with us and show enough loyalty and dedication to us, you can learn about those ordinances, but not until. For now, just know that we believe Jesus Christ is our Lord and Savior.

Charity, BC, don't you guys see something not quite right about that approach? Not to mention not-quite-Christlike?

What we see is that you don't need to know everything all at once. If you know, from the Spirit, that the Church is God's own church, then you don't need any more. IF you know that, then you have committed yourself to whatever else there is.

And I don't worry about how much the Church will "roll forth." Those who will accept and be obedient to God will join. Those who won't, won't. And that is no loss to the Church. Of those who join for the wrong reasons and then don't stay SOME of them become a real pain. It has always been the apostates at the root of the persecutions of the members.

[_Yoda]

by the way: nevermo who for some reason is quasi interested in the Weirdness: Double WEIRD

It's OK, Bond. We kinda grow on you! ;)