Chastity, Young Marrieds, and Pregnancy

[_Sethbag]

Charity, you're completely and totally missing the point.

The couple in GBH's speech were already college students. Unless they were 18 year old freshmen, it would probably be difficult to tell how they differ from any other of the many hundreds of married student couples who inhabit the rabbit hutches at BYU. If students at BYU are encouraged so strongly to get married and don't delay having children, and they seem to manage it, what makes this other couple so different? In one case the sex precedes the marriage, in the other the marriage precedes the sex. Other than that, I don't see how their educational opportunities differ.

This talk is just another licked cupcake talk. If you have sex it's like your life just imploded. What took years to construct, like that bank building, will be gone in seconds, especially if it's the young man's first time and he has no dick control.

That, my friends, is the story of so many lives. We nurture them ever so carefully over a period of years. Then we find ourselves in highly charged circumstances. Mistakes are made. Chastity is compromised. There is an implosion, and a ball of dust is all that is left.

A ball of dust? That's all that's left of someone's life because they had sex outside of marriage? Really? Their lives will be total s*** now, and they're worthless balls of dust because they had sex? This is what KA and the others are talking about when they bring up "licked cupcake" lessons. We're teaching our young kids that if they have sex it's GAME OVER for them, they've lost, it's all gone, kaput. This lesson is CRAP.

Yes, this is what, according to the message from the Prophet, will happen to you if you have sex and aren't married:

Tears filled their eyes as they talked with me. But there was no escape from the reality that faced them. Their lives had suffered an implosion, and a tower of dreams had come tumbling down.

You will weep, you will wail, reality will come crashing down on you like a ton of bricks. Your life will suffer an implosion, and all your dreams are shattered and will come tumbling down. Because you had sex.

Give me a break. This is scaremongering, and I really don't appreciate it. It's wrong to instill such fear into young people over something like this.

[_Trinity]

From BYU Magazine Winter 2008

True to the Faith – by Gordon B. Hinckley

We Believe in Being Chaste

I observed a very interesting thing the other day. In Salt Lake City, early on a Saturday morning, the Key Bank Building was brought down with a series of well-placed detonations. It all happened in three or four seconds, with a great cloud of dust that rolled to the northwest. The process is called an implosion, in contrast with an explosion.

The building was constructed nearly 30 years ago. I suppose construction extended over a period of at least a year, maybe two. Now it was gong in seconds.

That, my friends, is the story of so many lives. We nurture them ever so carefully over a period of years. Then we find ourselves in highly charged circumstances. Mistakes are made. Chastity is compromised. There is an implosion, and a ball of dust is all that is left.

I was reminded of this when I recalled a young man and a young woman who came to my office. He was a handsome boy and she was a beautiful girl. They were university students. Their future looked bright and beautiful. But they gave in to temptation. Now they were going to have a baby. Their dreams of the future literally collapsed. They would be married. He would work at a low-paying job with the meager skills that he had.

Tears filled their eyes as they talked with me. But there was no escape from the reality that faced them. Their lives had suffered an implosion, and a tower of dreams had come tumbling down.

So why is it that having to get married and have a baby at a very young age will doom their futures, and result in a low-paying job, when if the same couple had reversed the order, and done nothing different except by marrying first and then getting pregnant, they would be celebrated by this same prophet? Still in school. Still young. Still struggling to support a family they’re ill equipped to support. Why in the world does the church push this scenario on its young people when it clearly recognizes how damaging the circumstances can be if the pregnancy preceded marriage?

Whatever. I hope these poor Mormon kids who are the recipients of such a fearmongering speech don't turn on their televisions or scan the mags at the grocery store. Dear little Suri was a conception outside of wedlock and I don't think Tom Cruise is going to go broke any time soon. How does one rationalize the economics of sin in that context? And that is just one example of many.

As long as there are visible real-life contradictions to Hinckley's assertions, he's going to come off a bit ridiculous.

[_charity]

No, it makes no sense to assume that a couple that has sex will go on to have a miserable, destitute life. Likewise it makes no sense to assume that those that do plan on getting married go on to have great riches.

It isn't the sex. It's the planning part. It's the planning NOT to have sex. It is the ability to organize, to plan, to anticpate problems, to solve problems, to set goals, and overcome obstacles to meet those goals.

I'm not detecting a whole lotta passion in that planning.

Harmony, it's how you handle the passion. Those who can are smarter and have better self control. Those qualities are important in success in anhy endeavor.

[_krose]

Of course it's a scare tactic, to throw the fear of God (the god Eros in this case) into kids. And it works. At least I know it did for me. I believed completely that my life would be permanently ruined if I gave in to temptation.

I used to have very vivid dreams when I was young and in my peak years. I think you know the kind. Several times when I was in my 20s, after a dream that seemed to be so real, I woke up in a panic, certain that I had just ruined my life for a moment of passion. It would take several moments of dread to realize that it was not real and that I was still okay after all.

So if it takes threatening the kids with images of their lives as a pile of rubble, or a lifetime of "you want fries with that" to keep them from touching each other, they'll do it.

[_skippy the dead]

Harmony, it's how you handle the passion. Those who can are smarter and have better self control. Those qualities are important in success in anhy endeavor.

Wrong. Controlling passion has little to nothing to do with being "smarter." Please, oh please, show me where this is true. Really.

There are plenty of smart folks with self control who still give in to "passion" and somehow still manage to go on to various successes. This line of argument is totally bogus. Take the story for what it was intended - to tell those who give in to their passions that their life is doomed, to scare them away from the possibility. The story wouldn't have quite the same impact if it went "They got married, had their child, finished school, earned graduate degrees and went on to a happy life with a successful career as an executive at a Fortune 50 company", would it?

Instead, we should make the "offenders" feel stupid, dirty and doomed. Because that's what sin means.

[_Moniker]

No, it makes no sense to assume that a couple that has sex will go on to have a miserable, destitute life. Likewise it makes no sense to assume that those that do plan on getting married go on to have great riches.

It isn't the sex. It's the planning part. It's the planning NOT to have sex. It is the ability to organize, to plan, to anticpate problems, to solve problems, to set goals, and overcome obstacles to meet those goals.

Ah, well then you'll have to explain that to all the people that have sex before marriage (the majority) that go on just fine in their life. Get to it Charity. Shine that light!

Does the Church counsel young couples about how to best prepare for marriage in the financial aspect of it? I think telling young people to get married is the opposite of wisely preparing anyone to anticipate problems, solve problems, overcome obstacles and meet goals. You are going to have a whole hell of a lot more obstacles to overcome if you're in your late teens or early twenties with no education, no ability to support your family well, and go on to pop out babies. That sounds like pretty poor planning to me.

[_Moniker]

This talk is just another licked cupcake talk. If you have sex it's like your life just imploded. What took years to construct, like that bank building, will be gone in seconds, especially if it's the young man's first time and he has no dick control.

Dang! Sethbag!

[_Dr. Shades]

So why is it that having to get married and have a baby at a very young age will doom their futures, and result in a low-paying job, when if the same couple had reversed the order, and done nothing different except by marrying first and then getting pregnant, they would be celebrated by this same prophet?

GREAT POINT, beastie! I hadn't made the connection before, but you're absolutely right (as usual).

Was the Virgin birth a planned pregnancy?

Joseph at least had a trade.

??? Joseph was into wife-swapping?

[_asbestosman]

Was the Virgin birth a planned pregnancy?

Joseph at least had a trade.

??? Joseph was into wife-swapping?

So who did Joseph get . . . nevermind, I don't think I wanna go there.

If I were Mary, I woulda sued the biological Father for child support. Just think of how much she'd be able to get. I mean, the biological Father owns the whole universe.

[_Dr. Shades]

If I were Mary, I woulda sued the biological Father for child support. Just think of how much she'd be able to get. I mean, the biological Father owns the whole universe.

Into the signature line you go. . .