Firsthand Accounts of the Second Anointing

[_truth dancer]

Hi TRTH,

Yes, this is an interesting aspect of the Second Anointing, in that it is supposed to cover posterity. But when you come to think about it, for believing Christians, that was supposed to be true for everyone who lived after Christ, that the atonement was supposed to cover everyone.

So why would a believing Christian, or one who professed to be, believe the atonement was insufficient and another ordinance would need to take its place? Do you think everyday believing Mormons even give that a thought?

This is an interesting thought... It had never crossed my mind.

For all mainstream Christians they are assured salvation through Christ... in the LDS church, unless one has had their CaEMS, they are still going through the test. So, the vast majority don't find out until the judgment day if they passed.

I've got to ponder the implications of this for a sec.

One of the critical aspects some LDS believers have toward mainstream Christians (from my observations which are few), is that they can make mistakes and still make it to heaven (faith not words). But, actually those who have had their CaEMS are similarly free to make whatever mistakes they want.... their actions do not matter at all. Hmmm...

Thanks for sharing this!

~dancer~

[_the road to hana]

Essentially, if this account is accurate, there is definitely a secret caste system in place in the church, which would seem to run counter to the basic principles taught by Jesus.

So does anybody here have any good information on this rite?

I think the business of "church within a church" has been around for a long time, the sense of there being a Church of the Firstborn or Church of the Lamb of God (not to be confused with the schismatic polygamist sects of the same name) operating within the confines of what appears to the public and general membership as the LDS Church.

The ritual itself has been reported on the Internet previously, and Second Anointing's account of it correlates with other reports of it.

Wikipedia actually has a fairly decent article covering it, with references.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Anointing

Here's a link to a blog that includes another firsthand account.
http://wonderwitch.blogspot.com/2007/01 ... nting.html

http://www.tlcmanti.net/Gosp-Disc/2-Anoint.html (Wilford Woodruff's journal entry is interesting in this one)

[_the road to hana]

In addition, the extra layer of secrecy is somewhat of a concern to me. Although we may be counseled to not discuss the content of the endowment ceremony, we do not have to hide the fact that we are going to the temple to receive it. Why would the church put such a cloak of secrecy around the rite, if it is something that would be considered to be a great honor?

According to the opening post, this is because there would be so many members clamoring to have the ordinance that the apostles would be swamped.

I think there's two arguments for the secrecy (from a church hierarchy point of view). The first would be the one Shades just advanced, that a general knowledge of the ordinance would lead people to wonder why they hadn't been tapped for it.

The second argument, and possibly more forceful, is that the church needs to walk members through a progression of secrecy, to a higher level if you will.

If you can get a general member to go through the endowment and other initiatory ordinances that take place in LDS temples without full disclosure beforehand, and be bound to a certain level of secrecy as a result, and then walk them to a higher level of having to keep a secret, you've stairstepped them to a place where you can expect very high levels of secrecy and trust, whether or not it's appropriate, healthy or deserved.

It would make one wonder what possibly could exist that others don't know about beyond the Second Anointing.

[_The Nehor]

I had seen that posting. It raises some interesting questions to me (as with Truth Dancer, I'd never heard of such a rite until after I stopped associating with the church). First, it seems counter to the concept of final judgment to have someone guaranteed their salvation prior to the completion of his or her life. What would be the basis for such a declaration?

In addition, the extra layer of secrecy is somewhat of a concern to me. Although we may be counseled to not discuss the content of the endowment ceremony, we do not have to hide the fact that we are going to the temple to receive it. Why would the church put such a cloak of secrecy around the rite, if it is something that would be considered to be a great honor?

And although Nehor pretends to have had God explain to him what some of the blessings mean (and boy is that shtick getting tiresome), I wonder what the practical meanings of them would be? Especially this "getting to live as long as you want" thing. That is astonishing. And somehow strikes me as wrong.

Essentially, if this account is accurate, there is definitely a secret caste system in place in the church, which would seem to run counter to the basic principles taught by Jesus.

So does anybody here have any good information on this rite?

I'm sorry that my having revelation in order to be exalted is tired shtick for you. Still, seems a small price for me to pay.

I recommend the book Mysteries of Godliness if you want to know more.

[_the road to hana]

I had seen that posting. It raises some interesting questions to me (as with Truth Dancer, I'd never heard of such a rite until after I stopped associating with the church). First, it seems counter to the concept of final judgment to have someone guaranteed their salvation prior to the completion of his or her life. What would be the basis for such a declaration?

In addition, the extra layer of secrecy is somewhat of a concern to me. Although we may be counseled to not discuss the content of the endowment ceremony, we do not have to hide the fact that we are going to the temple to receive it. Why would the church put such a cloak of secrecy around the rite, if it is something that would be considered to be a great honor?

And although Nehor pretends to have had God explain to him what some of the blessings mean (and boy is that shtick getting tiresome), I wonder what the practical meanings of them would be? Especially this "getting to live as long as you want" thing. That is astonishing. And somehow strikes me as wrong.

Essentially, if this account is accurate, there is definitely a secret caste system in place in the church, which would seem to run counter to the basic principles taught by Jesus.

So does anybody here have any good information on this rite?

I'm sorry that my having revelation in order to be exalted is tired shtick for you. Still, seems a small price for me to pay.

I recommend the book Mysteries of Godliness if you want to know more.

Nehor, don't you believe everyone has access to revelation?

[_The Nehor]

A couple of things. Assuming the account is true, it seems rather anticlimactic. And if the guy really has had his calling and election made sure, what consequence is there to spilling the beans? Does that constitute denying the Holy Ghost?

Probably.

In whose eyes? The eyes of church leaders or members? Or the eyes of the HG (assuming the existence of the same)?

Maybe there's an HG, but he thinks this ritual, and this particular church, is manmade nonsense. In that case, there's no denial of the HG at all.

God is the only one who matters. No one in the Church has the power to condemn someone to Outer Darkness and our own scriptures limit our punishment to excommunication. I don't know if I've ever met anyone who has denied the HG. There are two that I suspect it of but no more than suspect.

[_Canucklehead]

I deny that the Holy Ghost exists!

There, now you've (virtually) met another. :P

[_The Nehor]

I had seen that posting. It raises some interesting questions to me (as with Truth Dancer, I'd never heard of such a rite until after I stopped associating with the church). First, it seems counter to the concept of final judgment to have someone guaranteed their salvation prior to the completion of his or her life. What would be the basis for such a declaration?

In addition, the extra layer of secrecy is somewhat of a concern to me. Although we may be counseled to not discuss the content of the endowment ceremony, we do not have to hide the fact that we are going to the temple to receive it. Why would the church put such a cloak of secrecy around the rite, if it is something that would be considered to be a great honor?

And although Nehor pretends to have had God explain to him what some of the blessings mean (and boy is that shtick getting tiresome), I wonder what the practical meanings of them would be? Especially this "getting to live as long as you want" thing. That is astonishing. And somehow strikes me as wrong.

Essentially, if this account is accurate, there is definitely a secret caste system in place in the church, which would seem to run counter to the basic principles taught by Jesus.

So does anybody here have any good information on this rite?

I'm sorry that my having revelation in order to be exalted is tired shtick for you. Still, seems a small price for me to pay.

I recommend the book Mysteries of Godliness if you want to know more.

Nehor, don't you believe everyone has access to revelation?

Yes, but unless Skippy is being amazingly subtle I think she thinks I pretend to get more than most.

[_the road to hana]

Essentially, if this account is accurate, there is definitely a secret caste system in place in the church, which would seem to run counter to the basic principles taught by Jesus.

This is what concerns me as well. It goes against the Beatitudes taught be Jesus, himself:
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Matthew 5:5

Something about "the last shall be first" seems appropriate here, as well as the suggestion that it is more difficult for a rich person to enter the kingdom of heaven.

Or how about Luke 14:11-15?

The way it's currently set up, it seems more to be like being knighted, or having an honorary title bestowed, in recognition for services rendered (including generosity), and sets up a secret society within a secret society. From a New Testament point of view, it would seem to make far more sense if this blessing were given to the least of these, the poor, the meek, the humble, and the oppressed.

[_the road to hana]

God is the only one who matters. No one in the Church has the power to condemn someone to Outer Darkness and our own scriptures limit our punishment to excommunication. I don't know if I've ever met anyone who has denied the HG. There are two that I suspect it of but no more than suspect.

But don't you think the Holy Ghost is God?