charity wrote: I am one of a growing crowd who realizes that the "norm" of demanding monetary damages from everything from hot coffee to late mail delivery is a crazy aberration. It encourages an "entitlement" mentality and a victim mentality.
End of rant.
Slight derailment, because I agree with Charity a little bit here. I worked on the defense side of one of those hot coffee cases (a bunch followed the original - big surprise!). The woman claimed she had burned her, erm, lady area with a cup of McD's joe. She was putting a monetary value on her "lack of consortium" with her husband, which allowed us to ask all sorts of questions quantifying what that might be worth (like "how often" and the like). That was certainly silly.
by the way - we did settle for a relatively low figure, just because it was less costly than preparing for trial. Such goes our legal system.
Tort reform is very much needed. But it will always come down to cash compensation for torts. Unless we all want to live in the world of Seinfeld, where a man can be "sentenced" to be a butler for someone he injured in a car accident (okay, that was the show within the show, but still. . .). Cash is king, baby.
I may be going to hell in a bucket, babe / But at least I'm enjoying the ride.
-Grateful Dead (lyrics by John Perry Barlow)
charity wrote: I am one of a growing crowd who realizes that the "norm" of demanding monetary damages from everything from hot coffee to late mail delivery is a crazy aberration. It encourages an "entitlement" mentality and a victim mentality.
End of rant.
Slight derailment, because I agree with Charity a little bit here. I worked on the defense side of one of those hot coffee cases (a bunch followed the original - big surprise!). The woman claimed she had burned her, erm, lady area with a cup of McD's joe. She was putting a monetary value on her "lack of consortium" with her husband, which allowed us to ask all sorts of questions quantifying what that might be worth (like "how often" and the like). That was certainly silly.
by the way - we did settle for a relatively low figure, just because it was less costly than preparing for trial. Such goes our legal system.
Tort reform is very much needed. But it will always come down to cash compensation for torts. Unless we all want to live in the world of Seinfeld, where a man can be "sentenced" to be a butler for someone he injured in a car accident (okay, that was the show within the show, but still. . .). Cash is king, baby.
[continue derailment temporarily]
That reminds me of a lawsuit some years back when a young man sued the local city after he jumped off a bridge, because no one had warned him that doing so might be dangerous.
The film version of John Grisham's "The Rainmaker" offers a good example of why punitive damages can be necessary. Not that they bring back the dead, or replace the losses, but that they can prevent or inhibit someone from profiting or continuing to do harm.
[/end derailment]
The road is beautiful, treacherous, and full of twists and turns.
the road to hana wrote: Most of us here would likely agree that there is a need for tort reform in this country, and that awards have gotten seriously out of hand. That doesn't mean that punitive damages don't have their place.
I believe in punitive damages. Just not to go to one person, but to a fund. Getting a burn from hot coffee shouldn't buy you a 70 room mansion and 3 new Hummer every year for life. Feed a bunch of kids in third world countries for that 17 cents a day someone here wrote about.
the road to hana wrote: Most of us here would likely agree that there is a need for tort reform in this country, and that awards have gotten seriously out of hand. That doesn't mean that punitive damages don't have their place.
I believe in punitive damages. Just not to go to one person, but to a fund. Getting a burn from hot coffee shouldn't buy you a 70 room mansion and 3 new Hummer every year for life. Feed a bunch of kids in third world countries for that 17 cents a day someone here wrote about.
I think one of the most egregious examples in recent memory of frivolous claims is the guy who sued the dry cleaners for his pants, for what, $50 million or something like that?
It apparently cost the couple who owned that dry cleaning shop over $100,000 to defend against that claim.
the road to hana wrote: Most of us here would likely agree that there is a need for tort reform in this country, and that awards have gotten seriously out of hand. That doesn't mean that punitive damages don't have their place.
I believe in punitive damages. Just not to go to one person, but to a fund. Getting a burn from hot coffee shouldn't buy you a 70 room mansion and 3 new Hummer every year for life. Feed a bunch of kids in third world countries for that 17 cents a day someone here wrote about.
And to continue the derailment - bear in mind that most of the punitive award damages that are reported in the press end up being severely reduced (up to 90%, even), with no follow-up reporting on the fact. And as I mentioned before, often much of the punitive damages go to pay for counsel (they'll typically end up with 33% plus costs from the final judgment, even the part meant to pay for medical bills and lost wages).
by the way - the first hot coffee case plaintiff did not end up with enough for a 70 room mansion and new hummers each year. She was awarded $160,000 for compensatory damages (she suffered 3rd degree burns to 6% of her skin, requiring 8 days of hospitalization and skin grafts); the award was originally $200k, but she was found to be 20% liable, so it was reduced by that amount. Her punitives were originally reduced by the trial court from $2.7 mil to $480,000 (or triple the compensatory damages). We don't know the actual payout - the parties entered into a confidential settlement during the appeals process, but you can bet that the final numbers weren't that much more than the final trial court numbers. And half of the "punitives" probably went to pay for lawyers and costs of litigation.
I may be going to hell in a bucket, babe / But at least I'm enjoying the ride.
-Grateful Dead (lyrics by John Perry Barlow)
Charity... I would guess that in this entire country you would be hard pressed for anyone (other than you) to suggest that it is a bad thing for these survivors to receive monetary compensation from the man who abused, raped, and held them prisoner for years on end.
I think you could search the country and you alone would be the one to call these girls greedy and wanting revenge.
I am hardly even believing what I am "hearing."
~dancer~
"The search for reality is the most dangerous of all undertakings for it destroys the world in which you live." Nisargadatta Maharaj
the road to hana wrote: Most of us here would likely agree that there is a need for tort reform in this country, and that awards have gotten seriously out of hand. That doesn't mean that punitive damages don't have their place.
I believe in punitive damages. Just not to go to one person, but to a fund. Getting a burn from hot coffee shouldn't buy you a 70 room mansion and 3 new Hummer every year for life. Feed a bunch of kids in third world countries for that 17 cents a day someone here wrote about.
I think one of the most egregious examples in recent memory of frivolous claims is the guy who sued the dry cleaners for his pants, for what, $50 million or something like that?
It apparently cost the couple who owned that dry cleaning shop over $100,000 to defend against that claim.
That guy was just a jackass. I like when he cried on the stand about his pants. It's too bad about the dry cleaners - that's definitely an abuse of the system.
I may be going to hell in a bucket, babe / But at least I'm enjoying the ride.
-Grateful Dead (lyrics by John Perry Barlow)
truth dancer wrote:Charity... I would guess that in this entire country you would be hard pressed for anyone (other than you) to suggest that it is a bad thing for these survivors to receive monetary compensation from the man who abused, raped, and held them prisoner for years on end.
I think you could search the country and you alone would be the one to call these girls greedy and wanting revenge.
I am hardly even believing what I am "hearing."
~dancer~
If those girls were given millions, I hope they are enjoying it. If they are living the way most of the winner of big lottery prizes are, they aren't any happier than they would be without the money. But this is an extreme, non-typical example of damage awards. This guy was guilty. It was his money. They got it.
I have sympathy for the victims of the fall out of other kinds. When a Catholic church has to pay millions, it isn't the priest's money. He doesn't own anything. The money that goes to the victim doesn't go to the unwed mothers the church takes care, and the abused women in the crisis shelter, and the homeless people that the church fed. And that so some person who suffered some abuse a child, can live it up as an adult. I mind that one a lot.
truth dancer wrote:Charity... I would guess that in this entire country you would be hard pressed for anyone (other than you) to suggest that it is a bad thing for these survivors to receive monetary compensation from the man who abused, raped, and held them prisoner for years on end.
I think you could search the country and you alone would be the one to call these girls greedy and wanting revenge.
I am hardly even believing what I am "hearing."
~dancer~
If those girls were given millions, I hope they are enjoying it. If they are living the way most of the winner of big lottery prizes are, they aren't any happier than they would be without the money. But this is an extreme, non-typical example of damage awards. This guy was guilty. It was his money. They got it.
I have sympathy for the victims of the fall out of other kinds. When a Catholic church has to pay millions, it isn't the priest's money. He doesn't own anything. The money that goes to the victim doesn't go to the unwed mothers the church takes care, and the abused women in the crisis shelter, and the homeless people that the church fed. And that so some person who suffered some abuse a child, can live it up as an adult. I mind that one a lot.
I think those "millions" are generally settlements to large numbers of individuals. What they each get individually could be much less.
The road is beautiful, treacherous, and full of twists and turns.
the road to hana wrote: I think those "millions" are generally settlements to large numbers of individuals. What they each get individually could be much less.
What drove the Portland Archdioses into bankruptcy was two suits, one for $130 million and one for $25 million. These were in the names of two individuals, not groups.