Question for Charity

[_charity]

It's not just me, Charity, it's my old friend who blessed his son to recover from a serious illness, who's son soon thereafter died. It's my father's friend who blessed his daughter to recover from an illness, who soon thereafter died. It's my sister who, despite prayers, blessings, fastings, still doesn't have a job. It's millions and millions of people who pray for the well-being of loved ones, who, nonetheless, die or fail to receive the desired intertervention.

Maybe you're special, Charity, maybe God loves you more than these other people. Or maybe, if what you say is true, you are among the many randomly distributed who enjoy fortuitious circumstance.

While we're at it, I (as well as the rest of the world) am still waiting for the first person to lose a limb to have it restored through the miraculous power of God.

It is a wonder to behold how the faithful maintain such dogged belief in a system of intevrention that fails so regularly.

It sounds to me that you do not understand what priesthood blessings are. Priesthood blessings are not for the purpose of supplanting God's will with our own. We don't shake our fists at God and demand that someone be healed.

The way priesthood blessings are to be done is for the person giving the blessing to have sufficiently prepared himself to receive the will of God. Then he pronounces upon the person the blessing the Lord has for him/her.

With the best of intentions I think there are those who give a blessing of their own wants and desires. Of course, you would want your child healed. That may not be God's will. In such a case, for the child to be healed, if it is not God's will, would be to ultimately punish the child.

Maybe I am extremely fortunate. My husband has always prepared himself when he is going to give a blessing. I have always felt that I received the blessing that God desired for me to have. That doesn't make me more loved than someone else.

Would you count the reconstruction of a hip joint that had been destroyed by a bullet to be close to restoring a limb? That has happened.

[_harmony]

It's not just me, Charity, it's my old friend who blessed his son to recover from a serious illness, who's son soon thereafter died. It's my father's friend who blessed his daughter to recover from an illness, who soon thereafter died. It's my sister who, despite prayers, blessings, fastings, still doesn't have a job. It's millions and millions of people who pray for the well-being of loved ones, who, nonetheless, die or fail to receive the desired intertervention.

Maybe you're special, Charity, maybe God loves you more than these other people. Or maybe, if what you say is true, you are among the many randomly distributed who enjoy fortuitious circumstance.

While we're at it, I (as well as the rest of the world) am still waiting for the first person to lose a limb to have it restored through the miraculous power of God.

It is a wonder to behold how the faithful maintain such dogged belief in a system of intevrention that fails so regularly.

It sounds to me that you do not understand what priesthood blessings are. Priesthood blessings are not for the purpose of supplanting God's will with our own. We don't shake our fists at God and demand that someone be healed.

There's nothing in Guy's post that would lead anyone to believe those priesthood holders weren't absolutely sincere in their petition to God for to heal their loved ones. Why did you assume otherwise? Because it's Guy who spoke of those occasions where it didn't work?

Good grief, charity. Once more, your assumptions give rise to incorrect conclusions.

[_charity]

There's nothing in Guy's post that would lead anyone to believe those priesthood holders weren't absolutely sincere in their petition to God for to heal their loved ones. Why did you assume otherwise? Because it's Guy who spoke of those occasions where it didn't work?

Good grief, charity. Once more, your assumptions give rise to incorrect conclusions.

Harmony, you should have read my entire post. I never said any priesthood holder was not sincere! I am sure they are. But I also know that the priesthood are cautioned over and over to pronounce only what God sends as a blessing, and not to give their own wants. Of course, any parent would want their child to be healed. But before the blessing is given that such will be the case, the priesthood holder has to KNOW that this is what God wants. My husband estimates that at least 50% of the time, the blessing is give more as a hope than as an expression of God's will.

Then of course, there are always the occasions when someone so hopes that a person will be healed that when the blessing is given "healed if it be thy will" is taken as a promise that a healing WILL occur. That wasn't what was said.

But I never said the person giving the blessing was NOT sincere. It is your assumptions that keep getting in the wy of useful discourse, here.

[_guy sajer]

It's not just me, Charity, it's my old friend who blessed his son to recover from a serious illness, who's son soon thereafter died. It's my father's friend who blessed his daughter to recover from an illness, who soon thereafter died. It's my sister who, despite prayers, blessings, fastings, still doesn't have a job. It's millions and millions of people who pray for the well-being of loved ones, who, nonetheless, die or fail to receive the desired intertervention.

Maybe you're special, Charity, maybe God loves you more than these other people. Or maybe, if what you say is true, you are among the many randomly distributed who enjoy fortuitious circumstance.

While we're at it, I (as well as the rest of the world) am still waiting for the first person to lose a limb to have it restored through the miraculous power of God.

It is a wonder to behold how the faithful maintain such dogged belief in a system of intevrention that fails so regularly.

It sounds to me that you do not understand what priesthood blessings are. Priesthood blessings are not for the purpose of supplanting God's will with our own. We don't shake our fists at God and demand that someone be healed.

There's nothing in Guy's post that would lead anyone to believe those priesthood holders weren't absolutely sincere in their petition to God for to heal their loved ones. Why did you assume otherwise? Because it's Guy who spoke of those occasions where it didn't work?

Good grief, charity. Once more, your assumptions give rise to incorrect conclusions.

I guarantee you that my friend was not shaking his fist at God when he blessed his son to be healed of his illness. It was done in pure faith and sincerity. This guy devotes his entire life to his God, and when he turns to God in his (and his son's) greatest need, God ignores him.

It seems a rather sterile exercise to ask God to intervene when he's going to do what he's going to do anyway. Perhaps the narcisistic bastard just gets off on the sychophantic cringing and pleading that he appears to enjoy so much.

I note that you implied a very different intepretation of a blessing in your earlier post when you bragged of its efficacity among your family members.

Praying to effect an intervention is useless, totally and absolutely useless.

[_Always Thinking]

It's not just me, Charity, it's my old friend who blessed his son to recover from a serious illness, who's son soon thereafter died. It's my father's friend who blessed his daughter to recover from an illness, who soon thereafter died. It's my sister who, despite prayers, blessings, fastings, still doesn't have a job. It's millions and millions of people who pray for the well-being of loved ones, who, nonetheless, die or fail to receive the desired intertervention.

Maybe you're special, Charity, maybe God loves you more than these other people. Or maybe, if what you say is true, you are among the many randomly distributed who enjoy fortuitious circumstance.

While we're at it, I (as well as the rest of the world) am still waiting for the first person to lose a limb to have it restored through the miraculous power of God.

It is a wonder to behold how the faithful maintain such dogged belief in a system of intevrention that fails so regularly.

It sounds to me that you do not understand what priesthood blessings are. Priesthood blessings are not for the purpose of supplanting God's will with our own. We don't shake our fists at God and demand that someone be healed.

The way priesthood blessings are to be done is for the person giving the blessing to have sufficiently prepared himself to receive the will of God. Then he pronounces upon the person the blessing the Lord has for him/her.

With the best of intentions I think there are those who give a blessing of their own wants and desires. Of course, you would want your child healed. That may not be God's will. In such a case, for the child to be healed, if it is not God's will, would be to ultimately punish the child.

Maybe I am extremely fortunate. My husband has always prepared himself when he is going to give a blessing. I have always felt that I received the blessing that God desired for me to have. That doesn't make me more loved than someone else.

Would you count the reconstruction of a hip joint that had been destroyed by a bullet to be close to restoring a limb? That has happened.

If the hip was made perfect ONLY through the power of a priesthood blessing, then, yes, I'd say that counts for something. You know, something like this: an X-ray was taken, and then the person was prepped for surgery (and in the meantime the patient is given a blessing), and then when the patient arrives for surgery, the doctors stand around the patient with their mouths hanging open, staring at the X-rays and pointing at the hip, saying "Whah happened?!! Is this the right X-ray? His hip isn't broken!!"

THAT would be pretty impressive!

My guess is that this reconstruction you are referring to involves doctors and surgeries, over a period of months, and so on. In that case, it sounds like you have excellent doctors to thank.

Either way, it still isn't the restoration of a long gone limb.

[_charity]

I guarantee you that my friend was not shaking his fist at God when he blessed his son to be healed of his illness. It was done in pure faith and sincerity. This guy devotes his entire life to his God, and when he turns to God in his (and his son's) greatest need, God ignores him.

It seems a rather sterile exercise to ask God to intervene when he's going to do what he's going to do anyway. Perhaps the narcisistic bastard just gets off on the sychophantic cringing and pleading that he appears to enjoy so much.

I note that you implied a very different intepretation of a blessing in your earlier post when you bragged of its efficacity among your family members.

Praying to effect an intervention is useless, totally and absolutely useless.

I have had questions myself about the purpose of fasting and prayer if God is going to do what He wants anyway. I think it probably has to do with what the exercise does for us. Your blasphemous suggestions are disgusting.

And since I never "bragged" about anything, would you please place my statement in your post. Then everyone can determine whether or not your interpretation had anything to do with reality.

[_charity]

If the hip was made perfect ONLY through the power of a priesthood blessing, then, yes, I'd say that counts for something. You know, something like this: an X-ray was taken, and then the person was prepped for surgery (and in the meantime the patient is given a blessing), and then when the patient arrives for surgery, the doctors stand around the patient with their mouths hanging open, staring at the X-rays and pointing at the hip, saying "Whah happened?!! Is this the right X-ray? His hip isn't broken!!"

THAT would be pretty impressive!

My guess is that this reconstruction you are referring to involves doctors and surgeries, over a period of months, and so on. In that case, it sounds like you have excellent doctors to thank.

Either way, it still isn't the restoration of a long gone limb.

Your guess is wrong. It happened to a victim at the Haun's Mill massacre. You can read about it here. http://www.jwha.information/mmff/mlet1098.htm

In order to save you a little time, go to "find and replace" on the edit feature, enter the name Alma, and the second occurence on the page is the story. The description, first hand, is that the ball and socket joint had been shot away, leaving a gapt of 3 to 4 inches in the bone. The young man healed and could walk. No dctors. No surgeries.

[_ludwigm]

...
Either way, it still isn't the restoration of a long gone limb.

Your guess is wrong. It happened to a victim at the Haun's Mill massacre. You can read about it here. http://www.jwha.information/mmff/mlet1098.htm

In order to save you a little time, go to "find and replace" on the edit feature, enter the name Alma, and the second occurence on the page is the story. The description, first hand, is that the ball and socket joint had been shot away, leaving a gapt of 3 to 4 inches in the bone. The young man healed and could walk. No dctors. No surgeries.

Doesn't "long gone" mean a long time after the limb was lost? Or does it mean "leaving the bones about three or four inches apart" while the tissues and blood vessels are - relative - whole? (Please don't forget, I am a miserable Hungarian with a limited english knowledge. I think, "Always Thinking" is speaking about lost limbs. Reptiles can produce this type of healing.)

Does "no doctors" mean that the description of the damage is of some layman?

Please don't misunderstand me. I don't miscredit the event. Things happen. Even improbable ones.
Healings called "miraculous" or "unexpected" or "unhoped-for" have happened through history. I have no URL, only a book in hungarian about a warrior (the man is named, trustworthy sources and so on, but You may not believe it) who wounded by a javelin through his head. Input in his right eye, output at the back of his head. After his healing, he did continue to fight for some 15 years. The book didn' mention his religion ...

There are more things in heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy. - Shakespeare : Hamlet

[_Abinadi's Fire]

This guy devotes his entire life to his God, and when he turns to God in his (and his son's) greatest need, God ignores him.

I have had questions myself about the purpose of fasting and prayer if God is going to do what He wants anyway. I think it probably has to do with what the exercise does for us.

What difference does it make if a person prays for healing if the healing is going to occur one way or another?

If a person goes through the exercise and God has not willed for the healing to take place, what object lesson is learned through the performance of the exercise?

What father, if he had the power to do so, would only heal some of his children and then only if they correctly performed a faith/knowledge-based ritual which has no bearing on the decision to heal the person in the first place?

The exercise of faith in God as a loving father becomes meaningless to me under this construct.

[Guest]

I'm going on a board hiatus, but I wanted to comment on "tough love".

Charity, I too used to get the tsks and grounded myself -- I was manipulating my parents into thinking that I could be tougher on myself than they themselves were.

My father was from a long line of military men -- not the grunts, the prestigious ones, he had high ethical standards and these were drilled into me as a child -- respect, honor, dignity, loyalty, valor, honesty. I had to do pushups (no girlie ones) when I was disobedient. There was no questioning authority -- there were rigid rules, and HIGH EXPECTATIONS (which were set so high I couldn't live up to them which made me sneaky sneaky), absurd curfew hours (9 pm only one weekend night when I was 16-18 -- so I just did all my naughty things --sex--before 9 pm), I was forbidden to see my "bad" friends (just snuck to see them), forbidden from seeing my boyfriend -- my father HATED HIM (I wuved him and NOTHING was going to stop me from seeing him -- I snuck) I had an intact family (my mother stayed at home:), high socio-economic status, lived in affluent neighborhoods, etc....

I left home and I went BUCK WILD! Not wee buck wild -- BIIIIIIGGGG TIME BUCK WILD! Quasi-Anarchist hedonistic, carnal driven animal. I was going to taste life -- each and every bit of it -- soak it up, experience it -- GIVE IT TO ME! Snatching at it, plucking whatever I wanted from the world and rolled about in it. Of course all that had been indoctrinated in me left me incredibly shamed in later years -- but did it dissuade me from doing it? Hell no! I was rebelling and I sure did! I was a rebel with absolutely no cause. The only thing that "tough love" accomplished, after I went out into the big bad world and recognized that it was a bit tougher than I thought and I wasn't tough at all, was that I could NOT go home! Those expectations were so great, and I so shamed, I was overcome with anxiety from facing them. So to not face their scorn I just stayed away and made more poor decisions.

Of course -- I know -- I DID IT! I'm not saying they did it. My fault, my decisions, my actions. But the idea that raising kids one way determines success is absurd.

Now, of course, I have a beautiful home, beautiful children, an education, etc... I fell right back into that other world I left -- thankfully I can drift between different segments of society and can adapt. No one looking at me can tell, no one knows.... which most likely is why I spilled the beans on here.

Anyway, Sooo... moral of my story? Ya never know. What works for one might not work for others.