charity wrote: And the mall is not being done with tithing funds. How many times do they have to tell you that?
Charity, once tithing funds come into the church, they are invested. It might be true that its investment income that is actually paying for the mall, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the original principal amount being invested didn't come at least in part from tithes.
I think you do not understand investments and investment income. I think once tithing funds come into the Church they are expended. Temples. Chapels. CES.
Scottie wrote: This is what I proposed in the OP. It seems to me that the principle of tithing is to teach sacrifice. This is the spirit of the law. The letter of the law is that you pay 10% to the organization known as The Corporation of the President as tithing. Anything other than this will be an affront to God, keep you out of the temple and possibly strip you of all blessings associated with the temple.
To me, this seems like a perfectly legitimate choice. I am still following the spirit of the law, but I can choose who my donations help. Say my mother died of breast cancer. What is wrong if I choose to donate 10% of my income Old Testament breast cancer research as it might be something that is close to my heart?
The stated purpose of tithing is NOT to teach sacrifice. It is to demonstrate gratitude. God gives us all we have. We show him we are grateful by returning only 10%.
If you give 10% of your income to a specific cause, you are not showing God you are grateful for what He has given you. You are maybe learning to sacrifice, but that is beside the point.
Where is it written that the form must be specifically checked "tithing" to qualify as giving 10% of one's increase to the church? Are you suggesting that one will be denied a TR if they tell the bishop they give ten percent to the church to help the poor?
Official rule?
I'm open to learning here.
I know a few TR holding believers who do this very thing and they feel totally comfortable with it.
If a person received personal inspiration (as I believe was in at least one case), to give their money to the church to help the needy, are you suggesting they should follow the rule rather than their inspiration?
D&C 119. CHI 154-157. Tithing is tithing and not other things and it must be given to the Church, not some other group.
charity wrote: And the mall is not being done with tithing funds. How many times do they have to tell you that?
Charity, once tithing funds come into the church, they are invested. It might be true that its investment income that is actually paying for the mall, but that doesn't necessarily mean that the original principal amount being invested didn't come at least in part from tithes.
I think you do not understand investments and investment income. I think once tithing funds come into the Church they are expended.
You thinkI don't understand investments and investment income?
Charity, the church invests the income. That's no secret. The fact that you think otherwise is why you're not working for them growing their interests.
The road is beautiful, treacherous, and full of twists and turns.
charity wrote: The stated purpose of tithing is NOT to teach sacrifice. It is to demonstrate gratitude. God gives us all we have. We show him we are grateful by returning only 10%.
If you give 10% of your income to a specific cause, you are not showing God you are grateful for what He has given you. You are maybe learning to sacrifice, but that is beside the point.
I have friends who are Jewish who've told me that they are not obligated to contribute to the faith community specifically, but that any charitable donation they make overall, even to educational institutions, hospitals, and the arts, counts to the whole of their sacrificial offering. They might donate some of their contribution to the local synagogue or some other Jewish institution, but it isn't necessary. I think that's what Scottie's speculating on in the OP. I'm sure that people in other religions might do the same thing.
The road is beautiful, treacherous, and full of twists and turns.
D&C 119. CHI 154-157. Tithing is tithing and not other things and it must be given to the Church, not some other group.
I understand the church teaches it must be given to the church.
I'm asking if someone gives 10% of their income to the church but marks a different box, say fast offering, should they be excluded from the temple based on church doctrine, even if they believe they were inspired to do this and believed they were honestly full tithe payers?
If they stated that they were indeed full tithe payers because they believe they were in full compliance with the commandment would they be denied a TR?
If a person answers yes in a TRI, are they questioned as to exactly what box they checked?
~dancer~
"The search for reality is the most dangerous of all undertakings for it destroys the world in which you live." Nisargadatta Maharaj
the road to hana wrote: I have friends who are Jewish who've told me that they are not obligated to contribute to the faith community specifically, but that any charitable donation they make overall, even to educational institutions, hospitals, and the arts, counts to the whole of their sacrificial offering. They might donate some of their contribution to the local synagogue or some other Jewish institution, but it isn't necessary. I think that's what Scottie's speculating on in the OP. I'm sure that people in other religions might do the same thing.
Several scriptures wed tithing to sacrifice.
Deut. 12: 6, 11
Amos 4: 4
D&C 64: 23
D&C 97: 12
Here's James Faust: "Tithing is a principle that is fundamental to the personal happiness and well-being of the Church members worldwide, both rich and poor. Tithing is a principle of sacrifice and a key to the opening of the windows of heaven."
Dallin Oaks: "Tithe paying is evidence that we accept the law of sacrifice."
I'm surprised that charity would not understand the connection.
Where is it written that the form must be specifically checked "tithing" to qualify as giving 10% of one's increase to the church? Are you suggesting that one will be denied a TR if they tell the bishop they give ten percent to the church to help the poor?
Official rule?
I'm open to learning here.
I know a few TR holding believers who do this very thing and they feel totally comfortable with it.
If a person received personal inspiration (as I believe was in at least one case), to give their money to the church to help the needy, are you suggesting they should follow the rule rather than their inspiration?
D&C 119. CHI 154-157. Tithing is tithing and not other things and it must be given to the Church, not some other group.
I can respect your narrow and rigid interpretation of that scripture, though I prefer a more liberally reading and application thereof. To each their own.
If you give 10% of your income to a specific cause, you are not showing God you are grateful for what He has given you. You are maybe learning to sacrifice, but that is beside the point.
Nonsense!
People all over this world give to others because they are grateful for that which they believe God has given them.
Are you suggesting that LDS people who give to those in need can't do it out of the gratitude of their hearts?
And how do you know what is the point for everyone in terms of paying tithing? Maybe for some it is to learn to sacrifice, maybe for others it is faith, maybe for others it is dedication, maybe for others it is obedience, etc. etc. etc.
~dancer~
"The search for reality is the most dangerous of all undertakings for it destroys the world in which you live." Nisargadatta Maharaj