This is a substantially expanded version of some stuff I posted on MADB a long time ago. It contains images and links and formatting that would be a pain to transfer over here, so I hope you don't mind my just linking to it. by the way, Beastie, I put in a plug for your site near the bottom of the blog post.
http://chriscarrollsmith.blogspot.com/2 ... ormon.html
Chains in Mesoamerica and the Book of Mormon
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_CaliforniaKid
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_Runtu
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Re: Chains in Mesoamerica and the Book of Mormon
CaliforniaKid wrote:This is a substantially expanded version of some stuff I posted on MADB a long time ago. It contains images and links and formatting that would be a pain to transfer over here, so I hope you don't mind my just linking to it. by the way, Beastie, I put in a plug for your site near the bottom of the blog post.
http://chriscarrollsmith.blogspot.com/2 ... ormon.html
Excellent piece, Chris. Beautiful quote: "People are idiots."
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_CaliforniaKid
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Re: Chains in Mesoamerica and the Book of Mormon
Runtu wrote:CaliforniaKid wrote:This is a substantially expanded version of some stuff I posted on MADB a long time ago. It contains images and links and formatting that would be a pain to transfer over here, so I hope you don't mind my just linking to it. by the way, Beastie, I put in a plug for your site near the bottom of the blog post.
http://chriscarrollsmith.blogspot.com/2 ... ormon.html
Excellent piece, Chris. Beautiful quote: "People are idiots."
Lol. I thought that was funny, too. When I first posted that on MADB juliann jumped in and argued that I had misrepresented Dr. P by not quoting him in context. Although I pointed out that I had been asking about Porter's images, not soliciting slanderous comments, several other folks jumped in and agreed with her. My point sorta got lost in it all, I'm afraid. Hopefully the second time's the charm. ;-)
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_dartagnan
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_Ray A
Book of Mormon apologists, in short, have a long way to go in order to establish the credibility of "chain" imagery in the Book of Mormon.
They also have a long way to go in establishing the use of the word "Bible" some 600 years before the Bible was compiled.
When I emailed Mesoamerican archaeologist Payson Sheets about matters relating to the Book of Mormon, his curt reply was:
The Book of Mormon has nothing to do with reality, bye
I think the debate needs to go beyond "archaeological evidences", and I'm not saying this as a slur upon either "side". I understand what "apologists" are trying to do (and I don't call them "idiots").
Out of curiosity, CK, what is your stand on Christianity? Are you a literal, true believer?
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_CaliforniaKid
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Ray A wrote:The Book of Mormon has nothing to do with reality, bye
LOL
I think the debate needs to go beyond "archaeological evidences", and I'm not saying this as a slur upon either "side". I understand what "apologists" are trying to do (and I don't call them "idiots").
Out of curiosity, CK, what is your stand on Christianity? Are you a literal, true believer?
No, not really. I consider myself a modernist Christian, or maybe a Christian Unitarian. Have you ever heard of Adolf von Harnack, Ralph Waldo Emerson, Thomas Arnold, Friedrich Schleiermacher, or Baruch Spinoza? My theological views fall somewhere in that spectrum. :-)
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_Ray A
CaliforniaKid wrote:
LOL
I guess you missed that post I did on MADB.
CaliforniaKid wrote:No, not really. I consider myself a modernist Christian, or maybe a Christian Unitarian. Have you ever heard of Adolf von Harnack, Ralph Waldo Emerson, Thomas Arnold, Friedrich Schleiermacher, or Baruch Spinoza? My theological views fall somewhere in that spectrum. :-)
I've read three out of those five, so I suppose I'm not doing to bad. I honestly haven't heard of von Harnack, or Schleiermacher.
One more question: Were you ever a Mormon?
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_CaliforniaKid
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Ray A wrote:I've read three out of those five, so I suppose I'm not doing to bad. I honestly haven't heard of von Harnack, or Schleiermacher.
One more question: Were you ever a Mormon?
No. See here.
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_Ray A
So Chris, let me get this straight, and I'm only asking this to make sure I understand your view, not to interrogate.
But,
I know you mentioned in a post some time ago that you might be "going to atheism" (or disbelief?), but were not sure.
So, if I understand your "aim" correctly, it is to disabuse people of mythology, and hold on to the good things? Like morality, and perhaps a "basic" belief in Jesus?
How did your experience with the bishop's daughter influence your view of Mormonism, if any?
You don't have to answer any of this, but it would be appreciated.
And by referring to yourself as a "square", does that mean you thought about life, and life-questions, more than your peers?
Do you think you will ever become atheist? If so, why?
I really enjoy the vibrancy of Evangelical faith, community, and worship.
But,
but I think traditional EVism is bunk, I think morality is really important, and I like Jesus.
I know you mentioned in a post some time ago that you might be "going to atheism" (or disbelief?), but were not sure.
So, if I understand your "aim" correctly, it is to disabuse people of mythology, and hold on to the good things? Like morality, and perhaps a "basic" belief in Jesus?
How did your experience with the bishop's daughter influence your view of Mormonism, if any?
You don't have to answer any of this, but it would be appreciated.
And by referring to yourself as a "square", does that mean you thought about life, and life-questions, more than your peers?
Do you think you will ever become atheist? If so, why?
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_CaliforniaKid
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Hi Ray,
I don't know that I have an "aim" really. My material on Mormonism isn't something that I go around trumpeting to people who don't want to hear it. More than anything, I'm just sharing with people who want to talk about this stuff and wrestling with my existential questions in the company of like-minded others. I also just really enjoy history, philosophy, debate and dialogue. So while I do think it's mostly useful for people to be disabused of rigid, conservative, religious ideology, I don't know that I really have an "aim".
Not much, except to give me a profound respect for Mormon folk and-- temporarily-- to add a very confusing emotional element to the mix.
Something like that. I also generally try to be good.
Probably not. I don't especially see much use in becoming an atheist, but I respect those who do. For the most part, my brain is agnostic but my heart tells me there's something more to life than all this. I compromise.
Best to you, Ray,
-Chris
Ray A wrote:I know you mentioned in a post some time ago that you might be "going to atheism" (or disbelief?), but were not sure.
So, if I understand your "aim" correctly, it is to disabuse people of mythology, and hold on to the good things? Like morality, and perhaps a "basic" belief in Jesus?
I don't know that I have an "aim" really. My material on Mormonism isn't something that I go around trumpeting to people who don't want to hear it. More than anything, I'm just sharing with people who want to talk about this stuff and wrestling with my existential questions in the company of like-minded others. I also just really enjoy history, philosophy, debate and dialogue. So while I do think it's mostly useful for people to be disabused of rigid, conservative, religious ideology, I don't know that I really have an "aim".
How did your experience with the bishop's daughter influence your view of Mormonism, if any?
Not much, except to give me a profound respect for Mormon folk and-- temporarily-- to add a very confusing emotional element to the mix.
You don't have to answer any of this, but it would be appreciated.
And by referring to yourself as a "square", does that mean you thought about life, and life-questions, more than your peers?
Something like that. I also generally try to be good.
Do you think you will ever become atheist? If so, why?
Probably not. I don't especially see much use in becoming an atheist, but I respect those who do. For the most part, my brain is agnostic but my heart tells me there's something more to life than all this. I compromise.
Best to you, Ray,
-Chris