God Without The Supernatural

Post by **_DonBradley** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:00 am

Hey All,

Anyone given much thought to whether the concept of "God" could meaningfully be used to refer to something other than a supernatural entity? Is there, or could there be, such a thing as "God" within a wholly naturalistic framework? Why? Why not? What, if anything, do you think could meaningfully be called God, besides a supernatural entity like that posited by theologians?

There have been attempts to define a wholly natural God. Spinoza, for instance, identified God with the Universe. And the founder of Reconstructionist Judaism used the term to refer to the elements of the Universe that promote and preserve our deepest values, considering these elements not as discrete entities, but as a unified whole. What do you think of identifying these things with God?

I'm mostly just curious to hear what others' thoughts are.

Don

Post by **_Dr. Shades** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:26 am

I've given a little thought to such a concept at times. Here's what I've come up with in that regard:

Think of how far we've advanced in the past 200 years. Even if you discount that as an aberration, think of how far our species has come, relatively speaking, in its mere c. 200,000 years of existence (compared to geological time).

Now, if the Nemesis hypothesis is to be believed, just imagine a species on any other planet which didn't have the problem of periodic mass extinctions like our planet has. Would they not be gods?

Post by **_DonBradley** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:29 am

Hey Shades!

So, give us a few million years more and...? Will humankind become like God?

Don

Post by **_Ren** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:38 am

I think the classic 'omni' qualifiers usually thrown at 'God' would make such a being inherently supernatural.
But if the being in question isn't proposed to be all-powerful, all-present etc., then sure - it wouldn't necessarily be supernatural in my opinion.

Post by **_karl61** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:18 am

I like the Jesus spitting in the dirt and making a paste and putting on the blind guys eyes - it reportedly worked.

Post by **_Dr. Shades** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:35 am

DonBradley wrote:Hey Shades!

So, give us a few million years more and...? Will humankind become like God?

No, at the rate we're going, give us merely a few thousand years and humankind will become like God.

Post by **_truth dancer** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 2:02 pm

Hey Don,

Yes, I think about this pretty much every day. :-) My favorite topic to contemplate!

I'm a pantheistic, nature religionist, Spinoza following, Eastern philosophy embracing, believer in God. ;-)

In other words, I can't imagine a man/God/being directing the universe but I believe in the mystery/Source, and I believe that there is much more than what humans can imagine. I believe it is likely that there is some sort of consciousness (not in the human sense), that is the essence of the universe.

Briefly, here is the way I see it... everything came from a realm of nothingness, which in my view, is infinite potentiality, or unlimitedness. I see only one essence of which everything is a transformation/reflection.

In terms of Shades comment, while I can't see another world bringing forth forms like ours, since I believe ours is a direct result of the very specific environment in which we find ourselves, and I think it is quite possible that there could be other non-carbon forms of life totally unrelated or similar to anything like our existence, I totally agree with his point.

The idea that God is like a human man just can't fit into my brain. We are SOOOOOOOOO new. Why would God be anything like our little immature species? If humans live another million or billion years we would be something completely different than we are... much more advanced. God, minimally would exist as advanced as is possible in the universe which most certainly would be something other than a homo sapien sapien.

Personally, I think the "mystery" (God) is beyond what we can imagine... but it is fun to imagine just the same.

GREAT topic!

~dancer~

Post by **_Some Schmo** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:20 pm

The only way I can approach it is to think in terms of either a game or an experiment. If there is some sort of maker which is not supernatural, then I imagine the maker to be a group of folks who set all this up as either some sort of experiment to see what would happen given the set conditions we find ourselves in, or we are just the product of someone's imagination set up for entertainment purposes. We're Sim-Planet ™ on a universal, highly advanced scale.

Both suppositions seem entirely plausible to me (although I wouldn't encourage embracing either... just something to ponder on). Supernatural beings do not.

Post by **_Imwashingmypirate** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 3:21 pm

I try to avoid such discussions, but I personally believe 'God' to be everything.Everything combinedin onething, The everything. From the lowest, simplest form to the most incomprehendable thing ever. Absolutely everything. I imagine everything being like a sheet of particles and non particles that spreads off in all dimensions and non- dimensions(and semidimensions and fractal dimensions and quasi dimensions,every single iota of everythin) and everything connects and is 'one' and all that together is God. For God is within us all. And these particles interact and move around, but arestill one. They can never truely seperate. Thus the idea that a fraction is a whole entity in itself, found uncomplete in my blog.

Am I making sense?

Pirate.

Post by **_Trinity** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:03 pm

Yes. It is not a unique idea that "God is I and I am God." You find it in several books of spiritual thought. God is an internal manifestation. You can find this in gnosticism, and TD mentioned pantheism and some eastern philosophies.

You have no idea how much more sense the concept of God makes if you assume this position. There's a little god in everyone, and there's a little devil as well. People who recognize and acknowledge their internal god are going to manifest traits of what we recognize as divine.