Denied the Sacrament: Do Mormons Misunderstand Grace?

Post by **_KimberlyAnn** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:02 pm

harmony wrote:ROTFL. Okay, that is funny!

Yes, it is funny!

And GIMR, I've loved reading your thoughtful replies to this thread! Thank you!

KA

Post by **_MishMagnet** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:03 pm

I really don't understand what denying the sacrament does on a practical level aside from a public sign of humiliation.

At the first sacrament Christ still allowed Judas to partake. There doesn't seem to be any prose in the sacrament prayer that excludes those who are unclean.

I stopped taking the sacrament years ago because I no longer believed in the church and didn't care to insult those who did by pretending to be one of them. However I do take communion while visiting other churches as there doesn't seem to be any prose to dictate who is or is not invited. It's something along the lines of "all are welcome at God's table."

In the time since I've left the church I have apparently stopped equating belief in Christ with being sinless.

Post by **_Doctor Steuss** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:13 pm

Wintersfootsteps wrote:In my humble opinion, denying someone of the sacrament is a way of showing their friends/family/community that they have strayed. It causes undo shame on the person as everyone in the row looks down at them wondering why they didn't take the sacrament. [...]

I can't really remember the last time I took the sacrament. I think it's been about 7 years.

I have never felt any shame. Then again, I’m not exactly the “best” example of things “Mormon.”

*Shrugs*

Post by **_MishMagnet** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:35 pm

Steuss, are you voluntarily not taking it or were you told you were not to take it by your Bishop?

I don't feel shame either but I imagine this is because I made my own decision to take it and it wasn't handed down to me when I already felt crappy enough about something I'd done to go see the Bishop over it.

Post by **_Trinity** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:47 pm

This thread is a personal reminder to me how very far I am from christian theology. I studied the Bible for 20 yearss and never could understand the reasoning or rationale behind the atonement, or the whole idea of God having to crucify his son or his son committing suicide for us all. There was nothing noble in the whole story. The whole story was a setup. God is the one who created the crisis and then formulated a way for Jesus to swoop in and save the day. The way I saw it, Jesus suffered and died for our sins so we too could suffer and die for our sins. When I became an adult I saw all sorts of LDS parents who adopted the savior status for their children, giving up their lives for their children and trying to absorb or be responsible for their sins. And always giving their children a reminder of what the parent was doing for the child so the child would feel appropriate gratitude and obedience. It just seems like there are a lot of savior wannabees in this world. And still all the suffering!

I suppose the atonement is a topic for another thread though. But yes, KA, I saw the way the LDS "works" really messed with the concept of the atonement.

Post by **_Doctor Steuss** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 8:44 pm

MishMagnet wrote:Steuss, are you voluntarily not taking it or were you told you were not to take it by your Bishop?

I don't feel shame either but I imagine this is because I made my own decision to take it and it wasn't handed down to me when I already felt crappy enough about something I'd done to go see the Bishop over it.

It's a little bit of both. A basic breakdown (very basic):

Around age 20, "voluntarily" stopped. Around age 21 or 22 (can't remember), I decided that I wanted to start taking it, and went to my bishop to "confess" the things that caused me to "voluntarily" stop (a lot of it was simply anger towards G-d). I was pretty close to taking it again (after his proscribed time until I could again), but then went inactive (again). Then about a year ago, my (former) bishop asked me when the last time was I took the sacrament. After I told him, he asked me why. After I told him why, he said something along the lines of "I’m pretty sure G-d doesn’t think those are good reasons not to. Perhaps it’s time you took it again." And, now here I am and still pass it on down.

Maybe there was shame at some point in the past, and I just don't remember it. On a side note, about 4-5 months ago, I noticed the two girls next to me kind of "eye-balling" the fact that I passed on the sacrament. I leaned over to them and said "I’m allergic to sanctified sacramental emblems." I don't think they understood it was a joke.

Post by **_MishMagnet** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:01 pm

It's too bad you weren't at a Catholic service. You could have said you were a vegetarian. They probably wouldn't have gotten that either.

Post by **_Doctor Steuss** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:10 pm

MishMagnet wrote:It's too bad you weren't at a Catholic service. You could have said you were a vegetarian. They probably wouldn't have gotten that either.

I know I shouldn't, but...

LOL!

_Yoda · Post by **_Yoda** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:14 pm

Steuss wrote:Maybe there was shame at some point in the past, and I just don't remember it. On a side note, about 4-5 months ago, I noticed the two girls next to me kind of "eye-balling" the fact that I passed on the sacrament. I leaned over to them and said "I’m allergic to sanctified sacramental emblems." I don't think they understood it was a joke.

LOL! That's great, Steuss! I wish I could have seen the confused look on their faces.

This is signature-worthy!

;)

Post by **_KimberlyAnn** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 9:19 pm

MishMagnet wrote:It's too bad you weren't at a Catholic service. You could have said you were a vegetarian. They probably wouldn't have gotten that either.

HA! LOL, you clever girl!

KA