charity wrote:You should listen more closely. Even with the new bar coded temple recommends, neither bishops nor stake presidents receive any reports back on who attends when. There is not even any way to track how many people from any specific ward or stake attend on special "temple days." They might take a count at the chapel session, but then the stake president is there and sees that and doesn't need the temple president to tell him.
I am a volunteer temple recorder and know whereof I speak.
So you're calling Who Knows' stake president a liar? Or are you calling Who Knows a liar? He said the stake president said he gets a report on temple attendance. You say there is no such report. Someone isn't right.
This is what Who Knows said. I will bold the important part for you, harmony, since you didn't notice it before.
"I wasn't paying a whole lot of attention, but then he said something that made my ears perk up. He said he gets a report from the temple president on the members that have attended the temple. Right before this, he was talking about ward temple trips. So I'm not quite sure if he was just referring to those ward temple trips, or temple attendance in general. "
So what did he miss? And was the stake president referring to ward temple trips? Who Knows doesn't know because he wasn't listening!
Good grief. Did you miss the part where Who Knows says his stake president said "he gets a report from the temple president on the members that have attended the temple"? For crying out loud, charity. How can you say no report like that exists, when we all know it does?
Who Knows is adding to this as he goes along. In the first post was nothing about "I want to see everyon'e's name on the list."
Do you non-temple attenders know there is no mechanism for taking down names of people who go to the temple? In those temples which use bar coded recommends, they are specifically prohibited from collecting that information either by name of the person or ward or stake they attend. They do know how many people attend on each day. But as raw numbers, males and females. That is it.
Patrons do not register, do not sign their names on lists, nothing. When wards and stakes are given assignments such as baptisms, initiatory or sealings, bishops can know who participated from their wards, because these people sign up to go. And in the temple, groups are known only by the number of people attending, not by names. For instance, they know that X number of young people with X number of adults are coming in for a baptism assignment. But they don't even know how many actually show up. People do not sign up to do endowments at all. And when the ordinance cards come in for recording, we do not know which group even did how many ordinances. All the temple records is total number done. .
charity wrote:Who Knows is adding to this as he goes along. In the first post was nothing about "I want to see everyon'e's name on the list."
Do you non-temple attenders know there is no mechanism for taking down names of people who go to the temple? In those temples which use bar coded recommends, they are specifically prohibited from collecting that information either by name of the person or ward or stake they attend. They do know how many people attend on each day. But as raw numbers, males and females. That is it.
Patrons do not register, do not sign their names on lists, nothing. When wards and stakes are given assignments such as baptisms, initiatory or sealings, bishops can know who participated from their wards, because these people sign up to go. And in the temple, groups are known only by the number of people attending, not by names. For instance, they know that X number of young people with X number of adults are coming in for a baptism assignment. But they don't even know how many actually show up. People do not sign up to do endowments at all. And when the ordinance cards come in for recording, we do not know which group even did how many ordinances. All the temple records is total number done. .
Or that is what they tell you... just saying. They wouldn't want it public knowledge that they are getting information from these bar coded temple recommends, but that is exactly the purpose of the bar codes. It was fairly obvious to everyone when the bar coded temple recommends were issued that that was the case... at least with the people I knew.
It is possible that they are *gasp* not giving you the whole story... it is the Mormon Church after all...
Believe nothing, no matter where you read it or who has said it, not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. -Buddha
Even way back when I was still active, we used to hear how many endowments and sealings members of the ward had performed. How on earth could the bishops know that detail if the temples weren't tracking attendance by ward; how could they track attendance by ward if they weren't tracking by name?
At first when the Portland Temple opened, there was a desk when you first passed the recommend desk, where a person sat with a huge paper in front of him, and he asked you what stake and ward you were from. He then made a tally mark in the right column. No names, just ward and stake. This was discontinued because the policy was that there should be no coersion to attend the temple.
I think this type of thing is what you could be referring to. The "no coersion" policy continues in force. Encouragement to attend, but no coersion.
charity wrote:Who Knows is adding to this as he goes along. In the first post was nothing about "I want to see everyon'e's name on the list."
Do you non-temple attenders know there is no mechanism for taking down names of people who go to the temple? In those temples which use bar coded recommends, they are specifically prohibited from collecting that information either by name of the person or ward or stake they attend. They do know how many people attend on each day. But as raw numbers, males and females. That is it.
Patrons do not register, do not sign their names on lists, nothing. When wards and stakes are given assignments such as baptisms, initiatory or sealings, bishops can know who participated from their wards, because these people sign up to go. And in the temple, groups are known only by the number of people attending, not by names. For instance, they know that X number of young people with X number of adults are coming in for a baptism assignment. But they don't even know how many actually show up. People do not sign up to do endowments at all. And when the ordinance cards come in for recording, we do not know which group even did how many ordinances. All the temple records is total number done. .
Or that is what they tell you... just saying. They wouldn't want it public knowledge that they are getting information from these bar coded temple recommends, but that is exactly the purpose of the bar codes. It was fairly obvious to everyone when the bar coded temple recommends were issued that that was the case... at least with the people I knew.
It is possible that they are *gasp* not giving you the whole story... it is the Mormon Church after all...
No. The bar codes have to do with security. And of course, we expect the conspiracists to come crawling out. How long before we start to hear about the recall of the Danites. We who know are about to die laughing.
charity wrote:Who Knows is adding to this as he goes along. In the first post was nothing about "I want to see everyon'e's name on the list."
Given your propensity for making up stories to support your cause (your bishop 'reading' something from the CHI that doesn't exist), I am not surprised that you think others would do the same.
But I stand by what I said, and if you choose to believe that I'm making it up, that's fine with me. Like i said, maybe someone will corroborate what I wrote, sometime.
WK: "Joseph Smith asserted that the Book of Mormon peoples were the original inhabitants of the americas"
Will Schryver: "No, he didn’t." 3/19/08
Still waiting for Will to back this up...
charity wrote:Who Knows is adding to this as he goes along. In the first post was nothing about "I want to see everyon'e's name on the list."
Given your propensity for making up stories to support your cause (your bishop 'reading' something from the CHI that doesn't exist), I am not surprised that you think others would do the same. .
That is a false accusation. Do you suppose the people here would be as quick to suggest that I sue you, as they have been jumping on the McCue sue-wagon?
charity wrote:Who Knows is adding to this as he goes along. In the first post was nothing about "I want to see everyon'e's name on the list."
Given your propensity for making up stories to support your cause (your bishop 'reading' something from the CHI that doesn't exist), I am not surprised that you think others would do the same. .
That is a false accusation. Do you suppose the people here would be as quick to suggest that I sue you, as they have been jumping on the McCue sue-wagon?
You just accused Who Knows of lying, charity. And you get upset when he returns the favor?
charity wrote:Who Knows is adding to this as he goes along. In the first post was nothing about "I want to see everyon'e's name on the list."
Given your propensity for making up stories to support your cause (your bishop 'reading' something from the CHI that doesn't exist), I am not surprised that you think others would do the same. .
That is a false accusation. Do you suppose the people here would be as quick to suggest that I sue you, as they have been jumping on the McCue sue-wagon?
You just accused Who Knows of lying, charity. And you get upset when he returns the favor?
Pass the ketchup down to her, she has her foot in her mouth AGAIN.
1. Bar code carries the personal information.
2. After reading the code, some software searches the code (=person) in the registry.
3. With code matching, the software
- must identifiy the person, and that is what for the bar code used - can make a list to the user, qualified by any attribute, because the data is present.
I don't say they make any list. I say they can.
According to Who Knows, they do it. Or He is lying.
According to Charity, they don't. Or she is lying. Or she doesn't want to know it.
According to me, computer users use the opportunities they have.
- Whenever a poet or preacher, chief or wizard spouts gibberish, the human race spends centuries deciphering the message. - Umberto Eco - To assert that the earth revolves around the sun is as erroneous as to claim that Jesus was not born of a virgin. - Cardinal Bellarmine at the trial of Galilei