Big Brother is Monitoring your Temple Attendance

[_Jason Bourne]

SPs do not get detial of who attends. They do get a report of total endowments for their stake but it is not broken down by ward or person.

Then how do you explain the SP talking about the 'same names' that keep showing up on the report, and how he wanted to see some new names show up?

Perhaps this is just for our stake, or the stakes for the Mt. Timp. temple. Perhaps it's just for ward temple trips. I don't know. But what I do know, is that the SP told us he gets a report directly from the temple president, listing attendees by name for each of the wards in the stake.

In time, I'll be vindicated here. You'll see.

All I can tell you is my SP showed a group of us a report and said this shows the total endowments our stake had for December and the total for the temple. Our stake did 44% of the endowments but I cannot tell you how many your ward did because the report does not show that detail nor who did them.

Now it seems that if he can get a report by stake that more detail could be obtained. Nobody asks what stake we are from when we go. So I assume the bar code tells them that. I will have to dig a bit about this. We have lots of temple workers in my ward and in fact the temple pres lives in our ward as well.I will ask him.

[_Who Knows]

We have lots of temple workers in my ward and in fact the temple pres lives in our ward as well.I will ask him.

Is that the mt. timp. temple pres.? If so, perfect! I'd love to hear what he has to say. Even if he's temple pres. of a different temple, I'm sure he has some insight into this.

Thanks!

[_cinepro]

If data collection does happen, then it varies widely from Temple to Temple and stake to stake.

And as Nehor has pointed out, they don't scan your recommend before or after you actually do something, so they have no way to know if you are there for an ordinance, to visit the TP, to view a sealing, to eat at the cafeteria, to rent some white pants for an upcoming 80's themed singles dance, or anything else.

Also, the Church doesn't know your barcode until after you have been given your recommend, so there would have to be some type of data entry after your TR has been assigned; I'm not sure if wards have anyone typing this data into a computer somewhere, but I doubt it. So the Church might know which block of barcodes a ward has, but they aren't going to know individual names and stats.

For these practical reasons, I don't think the Temples have the data to make a report beyond basic, raw attendance figures. And based on what I know of the "encouragement not coercion" policy (to the point that there are no quotas or goals imposed on members), I don't think the Church wants that data in the first place.

[_Runtu]

If data collection does happen, then it varies widely from Temple to Temple and stake to stake.

And as Nehor has pointed out, they don't scan your recommend before or after you actually do something, so they have no way to know if you are there for an ordinance, to visit the TP, to view a sealing, to eat at the cafeteria, to rent some white pants for an upcoming 80's themed singles dance, or anything else.

Also, the Church doesn't know your barcode until after you have been given your recommend, so there would have to be some type of data entry after your TR has been assigned; I'm not sure if wards have anyone typing this data into a computer somewhere, but I doubt it. So the Church might know which block of barcodes a ward has, but they aren't going to know individual names and stats.

For these practical reasons, I don't think the Temples have the data to make a report beyond basic, raw attendance figures. And based on what I know of the "encouragement not coercion" policy (to the point that there are no quotas or goals imposed on members), I don't think the Church wants that data in the first place.

Back in the 80s, the plastic sleeves for the recommends had a magnetic strip. You swiped it when you went in to get the new name, and then you swiped it again after you went through the veil. I distinctly recall that my last name appeared on an LED display when I swiped it, so presumably back then they kept a record of who was doing what for whom in the temple. My understanding is that the church stopped collecting data on who performed the ordinances because it was simply unnecessary data that made their databases much larger and much more difficult to maintain.

[_Who Knows]

And as Nehor has pointed out, they don't scan your recommend before or after you actually do something, so they have no way to know if you are there for an ordinance, to visit the TP, to view a sealing, to eat at the cafeteria, to rent some white pants for an upcoming 80's themed singles dance, or anything else.

Then this makes me think that the SP was referring specifically to ward temple trips. Perhaps the temple has a list of people who signed up, and as people show up, they check off the names. And then the temple sends this information. back to the SP. I don't know.

[_Who Knows]

Also, the Church doesn't know your barcode until after you have been given your recommend, so there would have to be some type of data entry after your TR has been assigned;

What happens the first time you use one of these bar-coded recommends at the temple? Do they enter any sort of data there? Or take your name, and ward, or anything like that?

[_cinepro]

What happens the first time you use one of these bar-coded recommends at the temple? Do they enter any sort of data there? Or take your name, and ward, or anything like that?

The only times I go are for weddings, but if I remember correctly, they just scan it and hand it back to you. Never a question asked.

[_ludwigm]

I used to work on identity-card-based (with barcode and/or microwave) security systems software.

Is there anybody who has read me? It was about technical opportunites, it wasn't about rules.
Rules can be
- hidden or known
- used or not used
- moral or immoral

My old comment from this thread:

1. Bar code carries the personal information.
2. After reading the code, some software searches the code (=person) in the registry.
3. With code matching, the software
- must identifiy the person, and that is what for the bar code used
- can make a list to the user, qualified by any attribute, because the data is present.

I don't say they make any list. I say they can.
According to Who Knows, they do it. Or He is lying.
According to Charity, they don't. Or she is lying. Or she doesn't want to know it.
According to me, computer users use the opportunities they have.

[_The Nehor]

I question whether the barcode is even associated with a name. Unless clerks are entering barcode numbers into the system (and I don't think they are) then you could track attendance by ward (by figuring out which book the Recommend came from) but nothing else. The purpose of the Barcode system (as I understand it) is to get rid of the huge lists of invalid recommends at the entrance to every Temple (many of them lost or stolen books of recommends). Now when a recommend book or recommend is stolen it can be locked out so it will not be accepted.

[_Who Knows]

I question whether the barcode is even associated with a name.

You have a valid point. Obviously, if names aren't associated with the recommend, then that puts to rest the idea of tracking attendance by the bar-coded recommend.

So, any membership clerks out there that can weigh in on this?

though i still can't reconcile though how the SP is getting temple attendance figures by name. i guess this makes it more likely that he was referring to ward temple trips - where some sort of checklist is used by the temple.