Jaredite steel?

[_beastie]

All I have the energy to do tonight is to link my website page that discusses metallurgy at length:

http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com/metallurgy.htm

The problem for this particular anachronism is that the Book of Mormon quite explicitly mentions the metallurgic process, AND Joseph Smith explicitly mentioned metal artifacts.

This restricts the use of the old favorite "translation artifact" argument.

[_Sethbag]

Perhaps you could explain to me instead why it is the Hebrew reference to steel [Strong's H5154] is copper. That has always confused me.

Perhaps you could explain to me how Joseph Smith, blessed with the power of the Holy Ghost and the utility of either a Urim and Thummim, or else a magic peepstone (take your pick) couldn't tell the difference between copper (which he knew about) and steel (which he likewise knew about)?

[_rcrocket]

Now you've got Zakuska over on MADB all a-google - he's posting what seem to be random bits that he's finding on the internets. He has apparently proven that Mayans had the technology to "produced some sort of metal implements", based on a Wikipedia entry for lime kilns.

Where is Beastie when we need her?

You've got to be kidding. She hasn't read the diaries of the conquistadors; doesn't know where to find them. She's good a linking websites. She doesn't read scientific literature I cite her and reaches conclusions about it without reading it. She's poser you all admire.

[_CaliforniaKid]

John, the fact that you haven't yet responded to my post over at MADB clearly shows you are beaten. Yet you continue the smear campaign against our beloved sacred text on this forum?

I should add, in addition to what I said there, that the Book of Mormon's many anachronisms prove that its imitation of the King James Version (a text positively riddled with anachronisms) was divinely superintended. How could Joseph have known to include anachronisms in his text? Are you suggesting that he was familiar with Bible historical criticism? By your anti-Mormon logic, Joseph would have had to be the most well-read person on the frontier! Clearly this is evidence for the Book of Mormon, not against it.

[_Mercury]

Perhaps you could explain to me instead why it is the Hebrew reference to steel [Strong's H5154] is copper. That has always confused me.

Wow, hand written down by Gods prophets and they still can't get a damn word right even though its written in the Kings English. Are you that stupid?

[_Mercury]

Charcoal's been around for 15,000 years. Copper's melting point is easily within the heat generated by un-bellowed charcoal. Iron's melting point is not. Throw copper into a charcoal fire and copper will melt.

And yet the use of stone age technology is all that is recorded both in the historical AND in the archaeological record.

There is no difference between the theory of ancient astronauts, Atlantis or Shangri La when held up against the Book of Mormon aside from the first three probably having a SMIDGEN of historical basis.

[_Runtu]

You've got to be kidding. She hasn't read the diaries of the conquistadors; doesn't know where to find them. She's good a linking websites. She doesn't read scientific literature I cite her and reaches conclusions about it without reading it. She's poser you all admire.

Bob, as one who has read the accounts of the conquistadors (and most were memoirs and recollections, not diaries) and who actually has a degree in Latin American Studies, I don't see the relevance to the technologies available in Jaredite times. We know roughly when metallurgy began to be used in Mesoamerica, and it was well past the time of Shule and his armies.

I would like to see some scientific literature that suggests metallurgy in a Jaredite time frame. Quoting the conquistadors doesn't help.

[_CaliforniaKid]

Scott Lloyd has attributed the Jaredite smelting technology to a miracle.

We're viewing these things in the context of divine aid. That opens a whole host of possibilities.

Zakuska pointed out that the strained phrasing of the passage supports this:

Is he not said to have molten the ore directly from the rock itself?

I vote that he shot laser beams out of his eyes.

[_Runtu]

Scott Lloyd has attributed the Jaredite smelting technology to a miracle.

We're viewing these things in the context of divine aid. That opens a whole host of possibilities.

Zakuska pointed out that the strained phrasing of the passage supports this:

Is he not said to have molten the ore directly from the rock itself?

I vote that he shot laser beams out of his eyes.

I have to say I bow in shame before such brilliance.

[_Bond...James Bond]

I vote that he shot laser beams out of his eyes.

The heat came from a bit further south. . .