Did Joseph Smith plagiarize the KJV in the Book of Mormon?

[Guest]

Charity: I'm still waiting: what is Isaiah 48 doing in first nephi when it was written after Cryus sent the hebrews back to Judah: it was written after Lehi sailed for the new world.

That is a question to ask Nephi about any of his writings. Did God give it to him in vision, inspiration, revelation. It was what it was when it got to Joseph Smith. AFter Mormon had put it together.

You know what I just heard?

"I realize I had a bloody glove, and blood in my car, and had owned a knife just like the one that killed my wife and her lover, and there are literally mountains of evidence that I did it, but your Honor it wasn't me - it was Columbian drug lords who, for some reason known only to them, wanted my wife and her lover killed!"

You don't even try to defend this. You merely assert that the Book of Mormon really is true, so the Lord must have revealed the contents of Isaiah 48 to Nephi hundreds of years before he revealed the exact same stuff to Isaiah, so that Nephi could write it down. Or, perhaps Mormon did it.

ROFL. This is so amazing to watch. It's like you're standing right there, in front of a pile of evidence that everyone else seems to be able to see, and you kind of squint your eyes a little, look around, and resolutely declare "nope, I don't see anything here".

I think the issue is that if Isaiah 48 was written by Isaiah - which Mormons really want to belive - which is the single author theory - then that would be a close call - but Isaiah was only on scrolls at that time - Isaiah 40 plus was written about 100 years after Isaiah 1-39 and after Cyrus sent the RICH hebrews back to Judah where they showed up unexpectedly to the homes of poor Hebrews that were not taken away - Lehi should have known that not everyone in his land would have been sent into exile - he should have been warned to look dirt poor and he would have been left alone - but that fact is that Lehi was reportedly in the New World - with Isaiah 48 in the plates when it hadn't even been written yet by the Isaiah's disciples or the priests.

[_skippy the dead]

With credit to Spinner on MADB, this discussion has begun to represent this exchange from The Simpsons:

(at a fantasy / science fiction convention where Lucy Lawless ask Xena Princess Warrior, is answering fan questions:)

Frink: Yes, over here, n'hey, n'hey. In episode BF12, you were battling barbarians while riding a winged Appaloosa, yet in the very next scene, my dear, you're clearly atop a winged Arabian. Please do explain it.
Lucy Lawless: Ah, yeah, well, whenever you notice something like that, a wizard did it.
Frink: I see, all right, yes, but in episode AG4 --
Lucy Lawless: Wizard.
Frink: [under breath] Aw, for glaven out loud

(I wanted to put that in my sig line, but it's much too long.)

I may have to pull it out on occasion, because the captures the apologist fall back position pretty well.

[_CaliforniaKid]

Thanks for the Gardner link, EA. Short and to the point. I wasn't aware of it prior to your posting.

[_Who Knows]

Does it count as plagiarism when both people have the same speach writer (the Holy Ghost) and they both give credit to Him?

The problem isn't that Mormon (or nephi or whoever) took the words of isaiah (charity argues that it's not plagarism because they attributed the words to isaiah), it's that Joseph Smith took the words from the KJV Bible.

Do you see the difference?

[_EAllusion]

Why get hung up on the semantics of the word plagarize? The salient point is that large sections of the Book of Mormon text are easily shown to be derivative of the KJV translation.

[_Bond...James Bond]

Does it count as plagiarism when both people have the same speach writer (the Holy Ghost) and they both give credit to Him?

No, because the Holy Ghost isn't real. Real people wrote the Bible and other books from which the Book of Mormon was clearly plagiarized. What the hell is wrong with you??

I think (hope!) he was being (kinda) sarcastic.

(Dang we need smilies back).

[_the road to hana]

I realize that you aren't on board with the Church, but you can't accept part and not all. In for a penny, in for a pound.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

The argument is simply this:

When you ask a question about who says this dispensation will not fall into apostacy. then you are accepting the concept of dispensations and Second Coming. Since I don't think you do, then it is really moot to ask "who said?"

The response under the circumstnace would have been, "there is no such thing as dispensations and a Second Coming."

No, one does not assume the other. You're making the argument that there have always been apostasies and restorations, and then suddenly assuming that because "someone said so," that's stopped.

Hate to tell you, but it's not even an LDS view that there have been several apostasies and restorations. Just one.

[Analytics]

No, because the Holy Ghost isn't real. Real people wrote the Bible and other books from which the Book of Mormon was clearly plagiarized. What the hell is wrong with you??

Is the Book of Mormon worse than the Bible in that regard? What about the Epic of Gilgamesh?

Perhaps I'm brainwashed, stupid, or immoral. You tell me what you perceive to be wrong. Obviously something I said bothers you quite a bit. I apologize for apparently being so influential to your emotional health that you had to strongly ask me about my problems.

[Analytics]

Does it count as plagiarism when both people have the same speach writer (the Holy Ghost) and they both give credit to Him?

The problem isn't that Mormon (or nephi or whoever) took the words of isaiah (charity argues that it's not plagarism because they attributed the words to isaiah), it's that Joseph Smith took the words from the KJV Bible.

Do you see the difference?

Yes, I see that. I just don't see why it would change the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon. Using the familiar sentences of the KVJ seems like a natural choice to me, but then that's me looking back what we do have.

[_Who Knows]

Yes, I see that. I just don't see why it would change the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon.

Well, we're specifically talking about plagiarism, which charity can't seem to accept.

The Book of Mormon uses the KJV Bible, but does not give credit.